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Many Gedolim have given specific reasons why the Holocaust occurred. Including due to aveiros. Search the old threads here.
Shlucha,
“The holocaust didnโt result in much teshuva in fact many people went off.”
Do you know what the state of yiddishkeit was before the war??“Ours is a very weak generation and we need positive reinforcement”
We are only as weak as we convince (/make) ourselves…“He must have had His reasons for the holocaust, but I was just saying that it wasnโt to cause us to do teshuva”
Really??!? There are hundreds if not thousands of Rabbanim and Gedolim that would beg to differ…I guess in today’s day and age where everyone is “weak” for some reason they are entitled to their “own” opinion more than ever before…(chazal say that there will be more chutzpa than imaginable before mashiach..we’re definitely well on our way…)
It is hard to deny that a greater teshuva movement was spurned as a result of the 6 day war comapred to the Holocaust.
IT isnt just our Generation Fire and brimstone is not always the best way to get Yidden to do teshuva see Malbim Melachim aleph 19:11 ืืืืจื ืืืฉ ืจืื ืงืื ืืืื ืืงื ืฉืืื ืื ืืื ืืืงื ืืืชืืื ืืขืื ืืืฉืื, ืืฉ ืืืื, ืืืืืจ ืืืืฉ, ืฉืืื ืืงืื ืืืืืื, ืืจ”ื ืงืื ืืืืื ืืืฉืื, ืืืงื ืฉืืื ืื ืืื, ืืืื ืืคื ืื ืืื ืืจืื ืื ืื ืืืื ื ืจืื ืืจืขืฉ ืืืฉ ืืื ื’ ืื ืจืง ืืงืื ืืืื, ืืืื ื ืืืืื ืฉืืืืื ืื ืืืืื ืื ืืกืขืจื ืกืขืจ ืื ืืจืขืฉื ืจืขืฉ ืืื ืืืขืืจื ืืฉ, ืืื ืฉืขืฉื ืืืืื ืืงื ืืชื ืื’ ืฆืืืืช ืฉืขืฆืจ ืืช ืืฉืืื ืืฉืื ืืช ื ืืืื ืืืขื, ืื ื’ ืืฉืื ืืช ื ืืืืื ืฉืืืืื ืืืืื ืืงืื ืืืื, ืืืืฉืื ืืช ืืขื ืืขืืืชืืช ืืืื ืืืืืจืื ืจืืื :
@shlucha- as I said before I certainly do not take issue with chabad minhagim and definitely not with the Rebbe. Quite the contrary. I dont care if you quote chassidus and I understand that you want others to believe your ways. One of the issues when you or any other lubavitcher tries to “teach” someone chabad torah, they do it in such a way as to belittle everyone else and to persuade you and “prove” to you, why their Torah way is the correct one. Thats why it bothers me. And no, it wasnt just some lubavitcher that “offended” me, it is the general nowadays lubavitch mindset. Just check any chabad website, and I can give you links for any of this to back it up, just yesterday I saw various articles on various chabad sites, and such vile hatred in the articles and comments. You know what, dont expect me to learn from a lubavitcher, when they freely refer to the GR”A as “eliyahu from vilna”! Or put yimach sh’mo for Rav shach and say that he has “faded away”, or laugh at the Chazon Ish comparing him to a little lubavitch kid learning Tanya that they are on the same level! Or an article on Maran Shteinman Zt”l writing that he was old and the mind wasnt right? And writing thats the difference between a Rav and a Rebbe.
The list goes on and on how regular low lives think they can mock and say whatever they want on litvishe Gedolim and other Chassidishe Rebbeim, This is what the problem is. Check any chabad site and look at comments which will speak for themselves. And when almost all the comments are similar, you cannot give the excuse that its only individuals. The fact that the sites even publish those articles and approve those comments is disgusting. This is also daily talk in crown heights, farbrengen, shabbos table, etc.
And I ask you to show me just ONE other group that acts the same way. There are none. Even Satmar which is very extreme is closer to Litvishers and everyone else than chabad is. Why all the hate? Enough already.
And I am not hateful for pointing these things out. And I am not saying its “every” lubavitchers mindset, but yes, most. It made me sick to my stomach seeing those comments and articles which I only gave a mere few examples of.I got 20 people to keep shabbos by threatening them about another Holocaust. NOT!
Litvish: Did I say that meant nobody knew about them? It was you making the assertion that everyone knows about them. There are plenty of us here who really couldn’t care less what it says in Hayom yom and don’t consider any it “common knowledge.”
“they do it in such a way as to belittle everyone else and to persuade you and โproveโ to you, why their Torah way is the correct one. Thats why it bothers me. And no, it wasnt just some lubavitcher that โoffendedโ me, it is the general nowadays lubavitch mindset.”
What you describe might be a general problem common to Chabad, but Chabadshlucha has not been guilty of it here. Even if 99% of Lubavitchers were asinine (which I’m not saying is the case), it wouldn’t make it right for you to jump all over one of them in the 1% who’s actually making an honest effort to be respectful.
To bring her point home, this is a thread about Gog and Magog. It became another Chabad fight thread. There’s a clear trend of that happening with every thread with which you’re involved. If you were wondering why you feel like you’re on thin ice with the mods, that’s probably why.
spurned is the opposite of what I intended. I’m sorry about that. I guess autocorrect “fixed it”
I meant to write:
It is hard to deny that a greater teshuva movement was sprung as a result of the 6 day war compared to the Holocaust.Neville, please. Do me a favor and worry about your own “contributions” to threads. And no, no, I do not worry for being on “thin ice” with the mods. In fact you can see that my many comments get published. Nice try though I will give you credit for that. You attack me to make yourself look good, yet you still take a shot at chabad in your response. Well played.
“You attack me to make yourself look good, yet you still take a shot at chabad in your response. Well played.”
Where did I look good or attack Chabad? How many posters and mods have to directly criticize your rhetoric before you get it? This isn’t some giant conspiracy against you like you seem to be thinking.
You don’t deny the fact that Chabadshlucha was not being elitist here, because you can’t. You don’t deny the fact that every thread on which you post becomes a Chabad fight, because you can’t. This isn’t even entirely about Chabad; this is every bit as much about you derailing every other thread. It’s just getting annoying.
About “many” of your comments not getting modded out. I notice it took a very long time for that last comment to get out of “awaiting moderation.” Going to guess it took at least an edit or two to get through. Am I wrong?
Yes Neville you are wrong. There was no editing. I also noticed shluchas comments sitting there for longer than mine. There are different mods on the forum and so far yes all my comments have gone through.
Neville just because I don’t answer all your questions doesn’t mean I can’t, I just choose not to waste too much time on hypocrites.
Shlucha- sorry if the truth hurts. How about you look at some chabad sites, not only col, check the ugly biased articles and hateful comments and then you will understand. And ya the only reason certain litvishe rabbis make it to col is if chabad claims them as “friends of lubavitch”. But on the other hand if you’ll check previous articles, you will see them writing articles about the Gedoilim saying they are very old and their mind isn’t right so you cannot believe what they say, or refer to a Gadol as “that guy” who didn’t reply good shabbos to her son while he was on mivtzoim. And there are many other made up scenarios to incite hate and forward the agenda.
At this point it doesn’t matter, I’m sure you’ve exposed more of what you wanted regarding your mentality on the previous threads and everyone caught on to it including the mods.
The other reason I stand out is because I speak from experience and point things out which are very true. If you ever want, I can send you links to all these articles and comments. And yes they do speak for most lubavitchers, since this rhetoric is used outside of websites as well. But hey, I’m not here to convince you, you know it better than I.“What you describe might be a general problem common to Chabad”
-so Neville was that not a jab at chabad or was that just you being friendly?One more thing shlucha I actually hate machlokes and division. That is why even more so I feel the need to point these things out since there is a certain group which is a barrier to achdus more than anyone else. It’s funny though how everyone else does get along. I just wish “everyone” got along not just “everyone else”. But with certain mindsets regarding others, and close minded mentality it is just impossible.
@litvishemisnaged
You are so stuckย in your own bubble, that you take the greatest offense at the smallest stupid comment written by some bored Lubavitcher. Get out there and educate yourself instead instead of sitting by your device, shooting out venemous comments about Chabad.
Out of 20+ comments regarding the recent departure of harav shteinman zt”l, there was not one negative comment. All of them were all praising him for his great attributes and improvements that he made in this world. So stop accusing us of disrespecting your gedolim,
@neville Chaim Berlin
Thank you for standing up for the truth and counter attacking
edited instead of deleted
Attacking someone for attacking someone is not a strategy
Actually all of them started off with “not only did he not hate chabad…”
If Yakov Avinu requested to know when the geulah will be and it was not made known to him, who are we to try and figure it out?
Litvishe misnaged,
It’s incredible though, how successful you are at stirring up arguments on every thread that chabadshlucha starts or participates in. Can’t you just leave us lubavitchers alone?@doer
As Lubavitcher chassidim we follow our rebbe’s directives and teachings; he told us that the holocaust was not a punishment or some way to tell the yidden that we need to do teshuvah.@litvishemisnaged
What do you expect us to do? Extol and sing praise to your gedolim with every fiber of our being?
Yes, we begin our comments with “not only did he not hate chabad” because most gedolim and even other Rebbeim opposed Chabad, so the fact that he did not hate chabad is something worthy of mention. You are seriously looking for things to pick on by surfing the web for some nasty comment against litvishers.
Wouldn’t be surprised if you google “Rav Shach ym”s and “chabad is the best” or something like that so you could use it as proof that chabad puts down others in order to make themselves look superior. Stop looking for things to fuss over…Maybe I should start a new thread on whether attacking someone for attacking someone is a viable strategy or not. On the one hand we see that Moshe Rabeinu killed the mitzri attacker and he also reproached the Jew the Jew merely lifted his hand. On the other hand there is a sevara to say that the coffee room rules get to be set by the mods….
Maybe you have too much time on your hands ๐
@LitvisheChossid,
(I think I’ve mentioned the irony in that name before)
Why do you keep insisting that Collive is representative of Chabad Lubavitch? Maybe speak to a real live Lubavitcher and ask them what they think about that.Also, your attacks on ChabadShlucha are quite disgusting, you have a serious chip on your shoulder about Chabad. Can you please tell us which Lubavitcher did what to you to cause this attitude?
I’m not going to respond to everything else on this thread, I just thought I’d comment about the fact that almost every thread began by ChabadShlucha becomes a bashing Chabad thread.
“Do you know the source of the fact that in the past, teaching women could have confused them”
The Gemorah, Rashi, Rambam, Shulchan Aruch, etc. pasken that teaching girls results in tiflus (immorality) on their parts, since their minds aren’t geared to Limud Torah and they’ll mess up any understanding of it.
@ChabadShlucha,
Perhaps the discussion the Rebbe had with the Belzer Rebbe. If I remember correctly, they discussed this. You can find it in the book Shemen Sasson I think. Amongst other places.ZD -“Nobody knows who Gog and Magog is”
I heard that it is US & Russia.
And it’s about to begin!This thread is loony. Chabadskies are the bomb.
Health
I hope so but I highly doubt it
CA -“I highly doubt it”
Why do you doubt it? The Pres. tweeted the relationship with Russia Now is worse than the Cold War!
Interestingly enough, the OP’s op crystallizes the difference in ideology between them and everyone else. Because typical Judaism understands and accepts that Moshiach’s coming won’t be all champagne and roses (yom hadin hagadol, etc.) we know that when we daven for Moshiach we aren’t/shouldn’t be davening with selfish motives, because all we want is giluy kavod Shamayim in this world, so who really cares if that means we’ll suffer on a personal level- we want it because it’s ratzon Hashem and ritzoneinu la’asos Ritzoncha. To come to this madreiga is obviously difficult, but that’s our avodah- to want it because it’s Hashem’s will, regardless of how we will personally benefit or the opposite, not to try and find chiddushim/pshatim or pretend/gloss over what’s coming. All your doing is admitting your motives are selfish, because now you can get the goodies and not be worried about the hard parts. But that’s all you wanted in the first place, isn’t it.
Why do you doubt it?
Because I donโt see this having Russia invading Israel (like by sukkosโ haftorah
CA -“Because I donโt see this having Russia invading Israel (like by sukkosโ haftorah”
Why Not? From YWN News:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Wednesday evening and called upon him โto desist from any actions that would upset the status quo in Syria and would jeopardize its security.โ Putin emphasized that it is imperative to maintain Syrian independence and control of its borders.”I’m sure that it wasn’t just a friendly chat between Buddies!
Right health
What Russia and the Us are fighting about is different with what israel is doing with Iran
Do you guys use snorkels and scuba gear to search the soup? Did someone drown? Is it chicken, mushroom, barley, or vegetable. Is it pureed? These are very important questions, cuz visibility will be highly affected depending on the soup your searching.
There have been many times in history when people point to different signs and gematrias and crazy things happening and conclude mashiach is coming. Guess what? The world is full of crazy things and wars and gematrias and he hasn’t come yet. He is going to come whenever he comes. The reason to want mashiach to come is so we could have peace in order to do more mitzvos. So we just have to do as much as we can now and build our desire for more.
It seems that people like to escape into fantasies of some life changing world altering event. For some it’s nuclear was with North Korea for others it’s a financial crisis for others moshiach or aliens or cliamte change. Your crystal ball is no better than the rest of ours.
oh toi…. ; )
CS -“On this topic, I know thereโs supposed to be a slaughter happening in botzra around this time period. Where is that today? ”
Maybe it’s Duma? And we are waiting to see the reaction from Russia & Iran on the Syrian bombing!
CA -“what israel is doing with Iran”
It’s not what Israel is doing with Iran; but what Iran is doing to Israel!!!
Anybody interested in this topic, go check out Rabbi Mendel Kessin’s latest shiur on TorahAnytime. He explains how current events only make sense as Hashem bringing about the fulfillment of the navuos of what must take place before beeyas ha’Moshiach. (fulfillment of Yitzhak’s brochos to Yaakov and Esav, Yishmael’s teshuvah, war with Paras and Gog u’Magog. It’s mamash fascinating, and Rabbi Kessin is a master in connecting the dots and showing Hashem’s hand in current events in a way that both litvishe and chassishe yidden can relate!
My mesora from my rebbeim is that we don’t know exactly how milchomos gog umagog will play out!!!
Itโs not what Israel is doing with Iran; but what Iran is doing to Israel!!!
No actually itโs israel is doing with Iran where itโs taking care of an Iranian buildup along the northern border
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