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Is it acceptable for a man to offer a car ride to a woman waiting for a city bus? Back in my yeshiva days,I was offered rides and have always been thankful, especially when the weather wasn’t nice. I’d like to pay it forward to any frum male/female, but thinking it’s not an acceptable thing for male to offer female and visa versa. Thoughts?
No.
BSD
Frum, no it is not Frum. Joseph as usual will give the knee-jerk Chassid Shote response (Noshim are Assur!). Others will care what the Olam thinks, so they can show everyone how Frum (!) they are by leaving Noshim in the cold or rain.
If there is Yichud, it is certainly assur (but then again you wouldn’t take someone out on a date L’toeles there either). See below for my suggestion regarding what to do.
If it somewhere where you would interact with Noshim L’toeles, helping someone out is just as much L’toeles. There is no need to shmooze, and as a geder, you can have your Ema or spouse (if you have one) on the phone the entire trip (my Rov’s suggestion when this question came up).
That being said, everyone should know themselves. If they think that they may be nichshal by helping this person, then lend them your car and you should walk home (or take the bus) in the rain and the cold. As the SA says, “Tzarich Adam L’hisrachech mehaNashim Meod Meod”.
What about the mitzvah of chesed? If it is raining or cold or blazing hot, or the woman is holding a cane or using a walker or otherwise appears frail, there might be an appropriate exception to the rigid rule.
Gavra at work, I love your rav’s suggestion!
It depends entirely on context. The need, number of passengers and such are all factors. In a situation where you would feel threatened if the other person was a total stranger from outside the community it is definitely no.
No. I wouldnt.
If you’re in a car with your wife and you’re driving in a storm, and you see a woman on the side of the road shivering and trying to get a ride, maybe you should.
If you wife is in the car, yes. She should also be the one to offer it.
From what I remember, whether yichud applies to a car is not settled and some even make distinctions between heavily trafficked areas and not.
And even if yichud does apply, there are those who hold that there is an exception for a place with a continuous video surveillance. Fortunately, except in the charedi world perhaps, most phones have that capability.
In short, the answer to the question depends heavily on which LOR you ask.
I carpool about a minyan of women every day, Frogette gets on the first and leaves last. On the rare occasion she as a need to get off earlier, I have no problem continuing on with them, it’s broad daylight. They are of the more edele kind and more often opt to get off earlier.
Personally, I would stop, in daytime hours, for any woman at need enough to request a ride of me. It does not happen that often at all, but has happened, especially older ones at a need to get somewhere quick.
-my two aguros
reb yidd – then yes you should.
I occasionally get a ride home from work with a frum male colleague (he and I work in totally different parts of the building). Usually his kids are in the backseat. I don’t see it as a problem and neither does he, or either of our spouses.
My Rav told me once, this falls into the category of the 5th shulchan aruch. Seichel needs to be applied to the situation. If you dont have seichel……
Half the people on this thread don’t care about chessed and the other half are looking to talk to other women.
The obvious solution, and what I do, is to give them a ride, in the trunk.
continue.. If you don’t have seichel… then what??? (it’s nogea)
There is a known story involving R’ Chaim Ozer. He was learning with a group of talmidim when someone came and asked R’ Chaim Ozer “Ken ich nemen a gerushah? (Can I take a divorced woman?). He thought for a minute or 2 and then answered “Mir Ken”. The man left and the talmidim yelled “Er iz a Kohen”! R’ Chaim Ozer answered, he was not asking if he can marry her. Based on his clothes I can tell he is a wagon driver and since he is a Kohen wanted to know if was able to give a ride on his wagon since she is a gerushah. The talmidim went out and saw the man loading the woman’s packages onto his wagon.
If you’re an official, licensed car service, you will end up driving people of both genders. Unless you discriminate, which is probably not allowed.
I would say it depends on who the women is. If it is a nice eidele looking women, dressed tzeniusdig or an elderly women , no harm done. If the women is dressed provocatively and would cause hirhurim for the man, then the answer would be no. Depends on the circumstance.
“If you don’t have seichel… then what???”
Perhaps you shouldnt be driving altogether, but if you do, ask your Rav what to do.
I give my daughter’s friends rides home at night. I don’t want them walking alone late at night.
The Wolf
I also sometimes give rides to my wife and daughter.
The Wolf
“If you don’t have seichel… then what???”
Perhaps you shouldnt be driving altogether, but if you do, ask your Rav what to do.
What if your rav doesn’t have seichel? I know you should pick a rav who has seichel, but if you don’t have seichel, maybe you’re not picking a rav with seichel and you don’t even realize it.
I give my daughter’s friends rides home at night. I don’t want them walking alone late at night.
I also sometimes give rides to my wife and daughter.
I hope you at least have the decency to put them in the trunk.
I hope you at least have the decency to put them in the trunk.
Only if I’m feeling overly righteous that day.
The Wolf
I think everyone should just drive and than no one will have that issue. when everyone is 16 they should get their license issue resolved and if someone needs a ride ask their gender.
Women shouldn’t be driving.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/women-driving
@joseph. Lol. They should then walk to the polls.
Also, if they cannot get rides, and they cannot drive, how are they supposed to do anything while their husband is learning all day in kolel?
I wouldn’t give a stranger a lift at all. You don’t know what can happen, ch”v. Lots of crazy and dangerous people out there.
Joseph: You belong in Saudi Arabia. I bet if you saw a woman drowning, you wouldn’t save her because of negia.
Women shouldn’t be driving.
And, apparently, many rabbonim disagree with you, as their wives drive.
The Wolf
I didn’t say l’chol hadeios.
I didn’t say l’chol hadeios.
You didn’t qualify it by saying “some say” either.
The Wolf
Do you always qualify halachic opinions you share with a disclaimer “but other rabbis disagree”?
(i.e. “Don’t use the eruv in Flatbush. But other rabbis disagree.”)
Joseph – so its better to get a ride by a guy and talk to him instead? I dot think so. So its 100% okay for women to drive.
heter of the week. charge them a nominal fee (lets say a nickel) and now you are doing it for parnassah, since you are involved with your parnassah we are not concerned (same heter a male ob/gyn or even a car service driver has).
be back next week with another heter.
Typically when talking about eruvin, one should say “I don’t hold by such and such eruv” or “We [meaning your family] don’t hold by such and such eruv”. I would never say “such and such eruv is treif” if God-fearing Jews hold by it and it’s checked by a frum rav.
“same heter a male ob/gyn or even a car service driver has”
Is that the heter for a male OB/GYN?
If he were doing it for free it would be assur?
Joseph: A woman is struggling in the water. Would you help her?
Sam, the answer could easily be yes, save her life (of course) but not necessarily give her a ride for her convenience.
Sam, the answer could easily be yes, save her life (of course) but not necessarily give her a ride for her convenience.
Once again, if you are so worried, hand over the keys and walk home.
“my ob gyn will be a female.”
You are free to choose whoever you feel will offer you the best treatment for whatever situation you may find yourself in, whether it is the ob/gyn, the internist or the podiatrist. You should never need these professionals for anything other than routine care.
“Is that the heter for a male OB/GYN?”
If a female ob/gyn needs this heter to treat a male patient, I think she should call a shrink, not a rav.
sam2 – its true what daas yachid is saying you shouldnt give rides to girls and girls should be able to drive themselves. its much different than saving a life.
???? ??????
Like most issues in the Coffee Room, the answers have nothing to do with the original question. What does an eiruv have to do with giving a woman a ride in your car? What does a woman drowning have to do with it?
iacisrmma – follow the discussion.
“What does an eiruv have to do with giving a woman a ride in your car?”
Both are high-strung subjects.
Sparkly: And why shouldn’t you give a woman a ride? No one’s saying to have a conversation or have any interaction with them. Why can’t a man do a very useful favor for a woman?
MDG, 🙂
Sam, that’s a separate question, but don’t confuse it with someone drowning.
sam2 – she had to talk to you to get into the car.
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