giving tzedakah to aniyim who smoke

im sorry if some are offended by this comment. this thread sounds more like “finding reasons not to give tzedaka” than anything else.

i think the reality is that the responses are trying to make it seem that that was the purpose of the thread. the op’s intent did not give me that impression at all, there just seem to always be people who don’t like their ‘right’ to smoke attacked. You get the same arguments from the word ‘internet’.

You’re right, I missed the last sentence.

there is no reason not to give tzedaka to an ani who smokes. but you can also keep in mind the best form of tzedaka is to give someone else the ability to become self-dependent.

regarding the original question….

I always feel very hesitant to give them money if I see them smoking or if I can smell for a few reasons.

first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.

second, when the come round while smoking, they have a very negative attitude.

but apart from all of this we have to know that no1 would go round collecting if they don’t have to and we have to feel sorry for them and give as much as we can!

A collector once came to the Satmar Rov zt”l, complaining about his 10 children, all who had medical problems; two chasunas he had to make while in crazy debt, and a long list of tzoros. The Satmar Rov gave him $10,000.

After the man left, the gabbaim came in and informed the Rebbe that he was a fraudster. The Rebbe beamed. “Boruch Hashem! His children don’t have medical problems; he has enough money for his family!”

coffeeroomlover,

first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.

second, when the come round while smoking, they have a very negative attitude.

I disagree with these conclusions.

First of all – just because someone is smoking does not mean they can afford cigarettes on top of food and other needs. It’s natural that among the poor there will be a large fraction who do not handle their finances well or exhibit good future planning abilities – they make unwise purchases and then do not have enough left for necessities. That’s partly why they’re poor. Surely Hashem was aware of this yet still commanded us to help all of the poor among our people, not just the ones who budget smartly.

Second of all – it’s natural that among the poor there will be a larger number of people who lack proper social skills – these issues may be holding them back from employment, etc. That’s partly why they’re poor. Surely Hashem was aware of this yet still commanded us to help all of the poor among our people, not just the socially astute.

This entire thread reminds me of the story with (I believe it was) R’ Chaim Volozhin Z’l, who one year got a much smaller donation from a “regular” than usual. When asked, the donor replied, you used to come collecting on foot, this year I see you have a horse. I dont want my money to go for the horses provisions, I want it to go directly to the yeshiva and the bachurim. He replied, this is part of the chachma hashem gave to Betzalel when constructing the mishkan. What donations were used for the things like the aron, mizbeach etc, and what for the hooks on the curtains and what money to feed the sheep that would be brought as korbanos. He told the donor you give the way you used to, dont worry about how it will be used.

This is brought down in (if I am not mistaken) “Majesty of Man” Parshas Terumah.

Dont worry if he smokes, you worry about being mikayem the mitzvah of tzedaka. Hashem will work out the rest. Of course if you have a question whether it is tzedaka altogether, that is why you have a Rav.

By this logic we should not give anything to anyone without an intensive background check,

That is the Halacha, which is why many larger areas have a Va’ad Tzedaka that does the checking for you. It is also why you are better off providing items (such as food or clothes) to Aniyim, or directly paying their grocery or medical bill, and not money, where appropriate. Part of the sickness is that people buy what they don’t need (as an extreme, drugs), and that doesn’t help them at all.

shulchanhashalem – Well said.

Once again, I’ll point out that there are Halachos of Tzedaka just like there are Halachos of Shechitah or Basar V’Chalav. Ask your LOR if you have questions on whom to give and how much.

“That is not true.”

Perhaps (note the word, perhaps) it is, when there are many aniyim and limited funds, and it is their way of paskening who has kedima.

“possibly could not be tzedakah at all”

isnt it wonderful that we all have a rav to answer such questions for us?

inverse?

who cares why he is overweight, the bottom line is he is, why would i want to give him more food to eat?

That is not true. There is no halacha saying you have to do a background check when some ani asks you for a couple bucks on the street.

Bava Basra 9a:

??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??”? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ??????

Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deiah 251:10:

?? ??? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???

patur: An ani smoking in of its self is not proof of anything- period. If you look at my original statement i was responding this line “first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.”

while you might have found that using a quick google search, this is not how we determine halacha. I said “There is no halacha saying you have to do a background check when some ani asks you for a couple bucks on the street.” That is true. You are referring to communal funds and or a “chiuv” for a private citizen to give- for that the halacha is different. If you choose to buy one less sprite bottle at the gas station in order to give a poor person who smokes a dollar- there is no halacha against this. Also, what ani who smokes says he does not need food? Additionally, rov moshe says that if someone was rich and they squandered all their money away (lets say in vegas) one must still give him tzedaka since he needs this money now.

Obviously there are limits, to each his own, but it certainty would not hurt ones middos to give a dollar to someone who asks even if they smoke if they can afford to. To count this $1 towards ones maaser money though is not what I am discussing.

newbee:

Of course you can also give the dollar to the Alei Yarok political party as well 🙂 We are discussing Halachos of Tzedaka, not someone Stam willing to throw away their money. That is a very different question.

The Din is that if ‘you’ want to check you can, however if you don’t want to then you must give because that is the Din as stated above (many Issurim if you don’t). Regarding the whole question all it says in the SH”Aruch is that if a person is a Mumar then he does not get Tzedaka. A. I’m sure the people that are Makpid on smokers certainly would not give a person that went off the Derech. B. I’m sure you would also claim that he is Pasul Ledus. If you have any ????? regarding these questions, remember ??? ???????? ?????? and for sure give him money.