giving tzedakah to aniyim who smoke

What about giving tzedaka to aniyim who post in the coffee room instead of looking for a job? Or aniyim who wear brand name shoes or clothing or a Borsalino-brand hat instead of cheaper no-brand clothing? Or aniyim who you witnessed buying a lottery ticket? Or aniyim who you know eat junk food or expensive meat or you saw ate out in a restaurant? Or aniyim who you saw sitting near you at the concert instead of them spending that ticket money on food and necessities?

RebYidd23 – That is a very big statement that “giving someone cigarettes is a sin”. Whether smoking itself is Muttar or Assur is, as has been posted here many times in the past, a fierce debate. An addicted smoker is only more lenient. And even if it is assur, it does not mean that it is assur to give him cigarettes. But that isn’t todays discussion.

Giving money to somebody in need is a mitzvah. Tzedoko. If the guy needs medication to ease suffering from an illness he caught, you would give it to him. Smoking – to a truly addicted smoker – is no more than an illness. Perhaps sponsoring clinical help to stop his addiction would be more ideal, but for the short term, cigarettes is a need.

Bear in mind, he isn’t collecting for cigarettes. They are coming to collect for families with medical conditions, with no food for Shabbos, with no money for weddings. It so happens that a small expense includes smoking. But not giving him because he also smokes means denying his innocent children shabbos food.

The OP’s question wasn’t about giving cigarettes to a poor person. His question was about giving needed food to a poor person who uses cigarettes. Quitting a cigarette addiction isn’t necessary possible simply because you need money for food.

CA – It is only Lifnei Iver if you are enabling him to do the issur. If he has other means to be oiver, there is no prohibition of lifnei iver. And, like I pointed out, it certainly isn’t a clear cut issur, however many shittos there are to asser it. And therefore he has ?? ?? ?? ????? ????. I have seen Shu”t sefarim who discuss giving cigarettes to smokers. If you want the mekor I can try have a look for you.

Very recent. 2010. The entire sefer is written on smoking and the halachic ramifications of the various different concepts involved. The author is very much of the opinion that it is assur to smoke (at least to begin smoking), but he still says that Lifnei Iver is not necessarily a problem.

Joseph – No, the OP did not ask about giving food to someone who smokes. It was about giving tzedaka to someone who buys cigarettes. And that makes two out of two attempts to twist around a legitimate question into something so not what was asked.

I have been fortunate enough to distribute food, money and other things to people who need (as the middle man, not my funds). I would not think twice about giving shirts and food to poor people who smoke, we still have an obligation to supply them their needs. Would I give them money? Probably not. I refuse to supply someone with their cigarette money. I would pay a bill for them or give them store money to a store that does not sell cigarettes.

I have been responsible for supplying things to individuals who are poor because they and their husband embezzled money and he got arrested. The family was left with no assests and no income. I asked if there is a question on giving them things paid for with maaser money if the situation was self made and I was told there is no question.

Syag: Do you refuse to give money to poor people who eat junk food (and may even be overweight as a result)? What about poor people who you know go to a concert sometimes?

yekke: Yes. But you are assuming that there are legitimate Shittos Bizman HaZeh that allow smoking. Pashtus is there are none.

yekke: Yes. But you are assuming that there are legitimate Shittos Bizman HaZeh that allow smoking. Pashtus is there are none.

Sam2 – You are definitely much more of a Talmid Chochom than I am; no question about that. I unfortunately don’t profess a bekiyus in the contemporary Poskim, so I cannot verify nor dispute your statement. I do know the stance of todays Poskim about beginning to smoke, but do all poskim hold that smoking [for somebody who has been addicted for 20 years] is assur?

Syag lachochma.

Why should their family lose out? I don’t know who you’re talking about but in such a situation, their father is an idiot and they have to live with the shame but why should they also have to live without food?

Op.

The same question goes for someone who smokes. Their kids know that the father would sooner spend money on his cigarettes then buy them bread. If he only has enough money for one, he will buy the cigarettes. How can you refuse this person money knowing that his kids will be the ones suffering bec your idealism of not giving money to someone who smokes?

interjection – I must not have been clear. I was asking if there was a question of giving with maaser specifically, as opposed to other food I get, and the answer is that the person is in need and it doesn’t matter how they got there. I wondered if there was any difference in the halachik status if the person’s lack of funds are self imposed.

Lifnei Iver only applies to something that is (a) definitely assur, and (b) when you are enabling the issur. If the person doing the “issur” has a heter to do so, or if you are merely assisting by making it more convenient, but not enabling directly, then there is no problem.

1. The question should divided to two: Halachic and moral.

2. Halachic discussion is twofold as well: A. Hilchos Tzedakah, B. Hilchos: i. Lifnei iver ii. MeSaye’ah. [This is assuming that the issur of smoking is unequivocal. This can be debated, though not in this venue. (A doctor told someone I know that one cigarette a day will not harm him.)]

Disclaimer: Although I am far from having reached the level of asukei shma’atsa aliba de’hilchisa, I would like to suggest some points, leaving the verdict for those more qualified.

A. Hilchos Tzedakah: The halacha requires us to provide the destitute with their needs, ‘Dei Machsoro’ (this is not translated as luxuries). This probably does not include feeding an addiction (aside, perhaps, for one of coffee 😉 )

However, giving funds (cash, check, wire, transfer, or money order) as opposed to providing the cigarettes directly, is not necessarily considered providing for the addiction, provided that he has other things to spend money on (such as shoes for his children for yom tov). More on this contrast below.

B. i. Hilchos Lifnei iver, ii. MeSaye’ah: This involves two very complex, and though often intertwined, distinct sugyos. It would seem:

i. Because the pauper presumably has enough money on him to purchase cigarettes, this would probably be considered ‘Chad ibra de’nahara’ (same side of the river), and would not constitute Lifnei Iver.

ii. Since he is not providing cigarettes, but money, this probably does not constitute MeSaye’ah.

Since halachicly there is no compelling reason not to give, you would still be left with your mitzvas aseh of tzedakah, and issurim for turning the ani away.

3. Moral question is basically do I refrain from giving a child who is in dire need for money because he is likely to use some of his money to buy a knife, which he may use to hurt himself.

Since your intention is altruistic, to provide the ani with his (unalienable) necessities, you can assume that your money will be funneled toward that specific cause. This as per the famous story with Reb Chaim of Volozhin.

yekke: I mean, there are plenty of Poskim out there with incorrect opinions (remind me someday to tell the story of the Posek who made an Al HaMichya on qinoa), but presumably the only Heter for an addict to smoke is that he is Anus, not Muttar.

DZ: So you can give the poor kid outside the Beis Zonos a sack of money to tie around his neck presuming he’ll use it on food?

I will only provide a few references, and let readers check them out. Participating in arguments on this subject is futile. Those who care don’t need the arguments. Those who don’t won’t listen. So, here are some places to check out.

??? ???? – ???? – ???? ?”? ??? ????? ?????? – ??????? ???”?

????? ????? – ??”? ????????? ???”?

??? ??? ??? – ??????? ??”?

???? ??? ????? – ??? ??? – ??? ??? ?????

This is just a small sample of references. Addiction is serious. Does withdrawal constitute illness or pikuach nefesh? Ask your LOR.

The discussion about assisting someone to commit an issur is a major issue.

A. Hilchos Tzedakah: The halacha requires us to provide the destitute with their needs, ‘Dei Machsoro’ (this is not translated as luxuries). This probably does not include feeding an addiction (aside, perhaps, for one of coffee 😉 )

I’m not so sure about that. Once one is addicted, surely this is a need? Perhaps a harmful, self inflicted need, but a need nonetheless?

????

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=52116&pgnum=1

The other sforim are not on Hebrewbooks. Maybe it is found elsewhere. Some might be in sforim stores.

P.S. Check out the haskamos and the clear statements from recognized poskim and Gedolei Yisroel.

And lived forever

I couldn’t figure out what that line was connected to. i thought he had posted in the wrong thread.

As far as the above comment is concerned, I would just like to clarify that my personal opinion on smoking tallies with Y2’s. It is dangerous, wrong and of course, ossur. Unfortunately, many start before they are old enough to appreciate the risk and/or lie to themselves about the obvious dangers, such as ignoring the obvious correlation between smoking and disease, as Y2 pointed out. The above comment was a mispost.

Unluckily, you must have pre-empted my explanation. Just to reclarify, yes, smoking is dangerous, ossur and wrong. It would take a bit too long to explain, but the above post was completely out of context, as Syag guessed (never agreed more with the verse his name alludes to).

DY: Just referencing a Gemara.

catch yourself – I wasn’t talking about drinking after he opened it, I was talking about passing it to him to open for himself, as is pretty evident from my post.