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What do people think of the times that rabbonim give a lot of kavod to a very wealth benefactor who donates very large sums of money to Torah causes (Yeshivos, Mosdos, Tzedakas, etc.)?
The individual himself may be an am haaretz in Torah and the amounts of money he donates may be relatively very large sums, but not necessarily more percentage-wise than the average Yankel. (Obiously if the average Yankel, with a struggle, donates 10% of his income in the amount of $4000 while Mr. Money Bag easily donates 8% of his income in the amount of $500,000, the mosod sees a greater benefit from the MB.)
Sometimes the big donor might even be a baal gaiva or an immoral person and yet he still receoves great public honors from Torah leaders. Is this wrong? Does it wash away his public aveiras? How are we to understand this frequent phenomenon?
I, too, have trouble understanding this sometimes.
If Hashem gave him the z’chus to be such a big supporter of Torah we should give him kavod (see Igeres haRamban for similar loshon).
There are many rich people out there who give nothing to our worthy causes. Some of these people give nothing at all. Some give to help save the whales. Some give to political parties. These people have so much money and are not zoche to use it to acquire Olam Habbah. But the people you are referring to were zoche. That says a lot. Don’t underestimate that.
??? ???? ?????? – ??????? ??.
i wouldn’t read so much into it. it’s simply the moissad’s only way to survive. I heard once that when they were busy with the Va’ad hatzala during WWII, someone suggested to R’ Aron Kotler that he meet a mafia head, and R’ aron said that he would bow down to the pope if it would one Jewish life.
Ohr Chodosh, I’ve personally seen plenty of chaz”al out there that discuss the huge z’chus that is being a benefactor of Torah. Some darshen the pasuk of “Eitz chayim hee lamachazikim bah”: It doesn’t say “lelomdeyha” (those who learn her) or “leyodeyha” (those who know her), but rather, “those who hold her” – which chazal say means financial support.
We don’t show the same kavod to a guy who knows one ten thousandth of what a Gadol knows, as we do to the Gadol, even if it was twenty thousand times more difficult for this guy to learn what he learnt. The same goes for financial support. While anyone who supports Torah deserves kavod, especially someone for whom it is difficult, be’olam hazeh we are not equipped with the knowledge to judge the levels of people’s nisyonos. Therefore we go according to how much someone knows & lives Torah and how much someone supports Torah, but NOT how hard it was for them. Be’olam haba it is a different case, and that’s where we say “olam hafooch raiti”.
Don’t discount the zechus of ANYONE who donates for the kovod of Torah. OTOH, I personally am bothered by the fact that were it not for the kovod, they would never donate, in all likelihood. But the fact that they do, is still something for which we need to be makir tov. Whar used to frind my gears, hwoever, was when two yeshivah students both committed the same “avlah” but the son of the wealthy contributor got off scot-free and the poshuteh mensch’s son was punished.
The nisayon of ?????? is bigger than the nisayon of ????? or mediocrity. He must make proper use of the money he indeed has. Hashem was michabed this person with the trust and oppurtunity to make proper use of this significant pikadon. We should honor such a person too. Even for R’ Elazar ben Arach this was a great Nisayon (??? ??? ?), how much more so for anashim kierkeinu. But surely they are given great kochos to pass the test since Hashem doesnt come with unreasonable demands from his creations and those who do, their zchus is great. That is why Rebbi (himself an ???? and understood the nisayon) was michabed Ashirim.
Mods, why was most post asking for this thread to be deleted deleted?
Why would you want to delete it?
Curiosity: Well, I explained why but the mods deleted it. If they let it through this time, my point was that the timing of the thread makes it obvious that it’s referring to a specific person which is just not nice. It’s an okay concept to discuss, just not when it’s clearly referring to an individual.
I should NEVER post after midnight. I can’t proofread too well then.
Oh okay. I live oot, so I’m understandably out of the loop on those matters.
42 made an excellent point. I know of someone who, when he gave $20 to a Mossad, it was considered a great accomplishment. But he had no problem donating $6 million to some funny project. There are many stories that indicate how one has to be Zoche to give.
Another point: It says that one who has $100 wants $200. If so, $20 has the same value to a multi millionaire, although it doesn’t translate as bread on the table. So when you hear about someone who donated $1,000,000 don’t translate that onto $10 of your own.
I agree with Sam2. I had the same thought when I first read this thread before shabbos and quite frankly, the insinuation is disgusting. So he isn’t the most learned of men, or the most yeshivish of men, doesn’t wear a black hat or white shirt and he doesn’t roll his raishes. However, the money he spreads to the numerous torah institutions and causes, enables thousands (if not tens of thousands)of people to become the most learned of men and afford the outer trappings that being “yeshivish” demands . It should also be pointed out he was given an honor because of what he does with his money, not because of his torah scholarship. This thread represents the abolute worst kind in the jewish bloggesphere, anonymous potshots by ignorant people at rabbonim and other community notables.
Sam2,
I had no idea this thread was referring to someone specific, but of course NOW I’m curious 🙂 !
Sam2,
Your right, however I would have never made the connection if you wouldn’t have pointed it out. Therefore I don’t think that this so bad.
so am I.
I can see this thread quickly falling into thread-oblivion.
My assumption was that this thread was referring to the man who said the Kaddish at the Siyum Hashas. He is not the most learned of people, though I have on good testimony that he spends a fair amount of time at his community Kollel when he can. But that’s entirely irrelevant. That man has donated millions, maybe even billions, to support Torah learning. Last week, he literally made possible tens of thousands of Siyumim on Shas. Tens of thousands. He has enabled billions of lines of Gemara to be learned. There are trillions of T’fillos in Shamayim now that wouldn’t have ever been made if not for him. When the project is done, a decade or so from now, there will be thousands upon thousands of people being Mesayeim the Yerushalmi as well, once again solely because of him. There is no one on Earth more worthy of having said the Kaddish at the Siyum than him. None of us can even begin to dream what his Chelek in Gan Eden will be like.
I believe the premise comes from someone who is jealous of the money or the kovod that rich people have. These people are doing the right thing with their money. Is this person in kollel learning?
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Kozov: You are 100% correct.
It is Offen a Gemorah. ??? ???? ?????? – ??????? ??.
The fact that someone’s Boich Svara doesn’t agree with a Tanna and he dares to voice it just shows how far his Da’as is from Da’as Torah. Rav Gifter used to say Da’as Ba’al Habos is Hepech to Da’as Torah, and we see that here. Hopefully, whomever disagreed will come back and be Moide to the Emes of Da’as Torah.
Yasher Koach!
Sam2:as soon as i saw this tread i also thought about that person and i completely agree with your last post
Money Bag Guy? Is that how the OP sees people who donate to a cause?
Sam2: I think you fell into the troll’s trap because most people here know who said the Kaddish.
Itche: Good, they should know and realize all of the tremendous good that he does for Yiddishkeit.
I think most of us are familiar with the story of the butcher who sponsored the formative torah learning of R’ Moshe and R’ Yaacov. I don’t think anyone would disagree that through that act he became deserving of tremendous kovod and more. Al achas kama v’kama this man who is responsible for mass learning such as we have seen since his philathropy was channeled to this cause. Not to mention any kovod he is due in his own right for his own ameilus batorah. I doubt we could show him enough kovod in this world.
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