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Sure. One of the guys involved is a mass murderer who got off on a technicality. Or one is a Rasha Gamur and everyone knows it while the other is a recognized Gadol Hador.
Wolf,
you say “* and then, I’d say that you save the TC only if saving him is more certain or of equal chance. If, however, you have only a 10% of saving the TC and a 90% of saving the regular yid, you go for the regular yid.”
What is your source for this? Halachic.
Sure. One of the guys involved is a mass murderer who got off on a technicality. Or one is a Rasha Gamur and everyone knows it while the other is a recognized Gadol Hador.
Ah, but you don’t know that and you *can’t* know that. A mass murderer may have done teshuva and the recognized Gadol HaDor could be doing horrible things in secret. Only HKBH knows the truth and the *true* value of a person. You and I don’t know and can’t know it.
The Wolf
What is your source for this? Halachic
Logical, not halachic. Again, as per my previous post, we don’t know whose life is more valuable. We can’t know, so we have to rescue the one who has a better chance of survival. All other things being equal, then go for the TC.
In any event, as I said, it’s irrelevant to the discussion at hand because, as I mentioned earlier, the case at hand is not comparable to two people drowning.
The Wolf
Wolf,
You cannot Assert that it is logic, if you have not considered the basis in Halacha. Until you understand the logic behind the Halacha you cannot extrapolate to other circumstances.
So at this point it was really an emotional response, not a logical response. That is why I asked for the halachic basis.
Besides, you are a funny one to take issue with something going slightly off topic.
Wolf,
In your recent post you wondered if the person will get a refund. Do you know the cheshbonos of HKB”H to aver that there is a refund due?
I am glad to see that you are on that madreiga, I do not feel I am that great to even think I could make such a cheshbon.
In your recent post you wondered if the person will get a refund. Do you know the cheshbonos of HKB”H to aver that there is a refund due?
I never claimed to know. That’s why I asked. Did you see me *demand* that he get a refund? I asked, that’s all.
I see that you’re still exaggerating my positions again.
I am glad to see that you are on that madreiga, I do not feel I am that great to even think I could make such a cheshbon.
I never claimed any such thing — and you darned well know it.
But you know something, who cares? After all, I’m just a stupid apikores deviant pervert who deserves to be locked up and shot at dawn, right?*
The Wolf
* And no, I’m not stating that you ever said that or even implied it. It’s strictly my opinion (and fact).
You cannot Assert that it is logic, if you have not considered the basis in Halacha. Until you understand the logic behind the Halacha you cannot extrapolate to other circumstances
I’ll tell you what? How about, before we possibly argue over a phantom, you point me to the source that states that saving a TC takes precedence over a regular person?
The Wolf
point me to the source that states that saving a TC takes precedence over a regular person
How about the same halacha that you save a man before a woman. Extrapolate the reasoning of the halacha.
That is irrelevant to your assertion.
You made an assertion and I asked for the source, which you conceded does not exist.
How about the same halacha that you save a man before a woman. Extrapolate the reasoning of the halacha.
No, that’s not the same case. Please show me that a TC is saved before a regular person. A halachic source, as nisht suggests.
The Wolf
That is irrelevant to your assertion.
You made an assertion and I asked for the source, which you conceded does not exist.
No, hold on. My position doesn’t matter at all if there is no such halacha that a TC is saved first to begin with. So, show me that halacha and then, once that’s established, I’ll see if I can find a source for my logic.
The Wolf
No, that’s not the same case.
I said you can extrapolate from the reasoning of that halacha. I stand by that.
I said you can extrapolate from the reasoning of that halacha. I stand by that.
Please explain how that was extrapolated. Humor the intelligence-impared like me. I don’t see how you make that extrapolation given the fact that both people in this example are males.
The Wolf
To the intelligence-impaired.
You see clearly from YD siman 242 and 251 that there is a difference.
But your assertion was that you base a halachic decision on odds. Thus you have to show where that is a halachic basis for a halachic decision.
WM: What is the reason the halacha is that you save a man first?
Wolf: Horiyos 13a if I recall correctly.
And Shein, the logic of a man before a woman is actually different than the logic of a Talmid Chacham over an Am Ha’aretz. In fact, a Talmid Chacham before an Am Ha’aretz actually trumps a man before a woman. A female TC (or, more likely, the wife of a TC) comes before a male Am Ha’aretz. See that Mishnah in Horiyos.
S2: If someone is neither a T”C nor an A”H, where does he fit in on the pecking order of being saved or killed?
Wolf,
**You** said, and I quote “So, does the guy get a refund on the six unused months?”
Which clearly means two things.
1) The six months were unused;
2)The person is entitled to a refund.
Two which I wondered how you were so big to make those two cheshbonos. Which **you** clearly feel you are big enough to make.
Nowhere did I say that any thing that would translate to ” Did you see me *demand* that he get a refund”.
You are very quick to twist peoples questioning your statements.
As if you are not, and cannot be wrong. I wonder what such an attitude is called?
You defined it as “a stupid apikores deviant pervert who deserves to be locked up and shot at dawn”.
Whether that is is or is not true, I have no idea, but that is not how I would characterize your attitude, those charming traits may be on top of what appears to me. But I have no way of knowing that.
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