Getting the other to say no

I don’t think you even understand the objection. You keep talking about honesty, when that isn’t the problem at all.

The problem is bein odom l’chaveiro. It is a mean and horrible thing to manipulate people for personal gain, especially in such an emotionally sensitive area.

I am even more troubled that you say you won’t do it because you want to be honest. Honesty is still about yourself–you are still only thinking about yourself while interacting with other people.

I’m not kidding here; I think you need to think about this, especially inasmuch as you are considering getting married. You need to interact with other people while considering what is going in their life–not only how the interaction can help or hurt you.

And it has nothing to do with shidduch dating. I’ve done way more shidduch dating than you have (I can guarantee that one, with AAA rating). I am intimately familiar with the dynamics you are referring to.

And even DY is only arguing in terms of degrees–he agrees it is unethical. And even he is thinking about the other person–he thinks sometimes the other will be less hurt this way.

I think you are a good person, but you have been very misguided in this area of personal interaction.

and I agree with popa that dishonesty is not at all the issue here.

Now you’re just changing the circumstances to annoy us. You certainly didn’t read my remarks as telling you to be dishonest in order to keep him and then be the one to say no.

Gentlemen, we have been trolled. I probably deserved it.

I think she is little misguided, and too given to blindly justifying what she is used to. I don’t think she is trolling.

T613t,

I did not say it was ethical (my previous post was facetious, in response to popa). I think it is UNethical.

I was only disagreeing with the degree to which it is wrong, assuming the other person wasn’t being hurt. Still, I think it is a lack of respect for the other, unless the motivation is purely to save them from hurt feelings (which it isn’t). So although I disagree with it, I don’t think it defines the person as selfish.

If the other person is being hurt, I think it’s a horrible, selfish thing to do.

Yeh just be straight out it will be better in a long one. Guys and women just talk and talk so it can get spread around then your name might not be the greatest. Hatzlacha

oomis, superme: Surely you don’t think the only reason you shouldn’t do such a thing is because people will talk?

One of many- no that’s not the reason but that is one reason to be careful. There are many more and peoplewere all talking bout other people talking about it so thats why I said that but there are many other reasons to if u want I can tell you..

The main reason, is that it is not acting like an adult to not be honest and forthright with another person. It is worse to deliberately act in such a way as to make that person think negatively about you. No one is putting a gun to your head to go out with the person. As I said previously, there will be many such moments with which you are faced in life, where you will want or need to say no about something important and it may even be a really uncomfortable situation. This is part of adulthood.

(It’s why I am so against the whole “let the shadchan do the asking out and breaking up for you,” deal) If you are old enough to date, you are old enough to UNdate, as well. And yes, if you act in less than a menschlech way, people WILL talk about you.

The main reason, is that it is not acting like an adult to not be honest and forthright with another person.

Be careful with that. Mutar l’shanos mipnei hashalom. You certainly wouldn’t expect someone to be honest and forthright if they didn’t want to continue dating because one found the other unattractive.

The most important thing to take into consideration is the other person’s feelings, which is actually a very good reason to use a shadchan.

That’s true

The shadchan often stays involved until the end. Often, “dropping the shadchan” only means that the boy asks her for another date on his own, but the shadchan still works to try to keep things smooth.

bump:)

I changed my mind. I agree with Torah completely.

?(facepalm)?

I am showing exasperation that he changed his mind, as a spoof of his exasperation with me, earlier.

I don’t take his “change of mind” seriously, though.

Say no to say yes.

For the record, I still don’t agree with DY though.

Does bring up a few questions.