Get Refusal & Shidduch references

This is a weird question. There are zero statistics regarding this.

Get refusal can be legitimate or illegitimate, depending on the circumstances and ruling of Beis Din. By default, a husband is under no obligation to give a Get even if asked for one. Unless, that is, he committed a wrong proven in Beis Din where Beis Din rules that wrong obligates him per Halacha to give a Get. But there’s a only a small set of circumstances under Halacha that obligate giving a Get against his will. Absent those conditions it is within his rights to decide to decline a request for a Get.

Do you believe that the references given aren’t biased in his favor? He’s not giving you his enemies as references

Ari, are you getting shot down a lot?

OP I don’t think you understand the subject of divorce
Dayanim can be involved if the parties ended up in front of a BD to argue / hammer out a divorce agreement. But this is completely unnecessary. And only done for people that can’t reach compromises in other ways.
But the get is presided over by a rav who is an expert . This Rav may have absolutely no knowledge about why these parties are standing in front of him. he will only confirm that it’s not a hasty decision by reaching out to the rabbis involved in the case.
So reaching out to the dayanim of a BD (assuming there is one) would be helpful. But I would assume that ethical standards would prohibit them from talking about a case brought before them.
The smarter thing is to not just call up the references on the resume.

Yes. The references might say something like, “great guy, but he never lets go. If your daughter marries him one day, she is married to him until the day he dies.”

mentsch1: The OP’s underlying point, as has been for the past several years in his comments, is that girls’ moms’ are unfairly relying on shidduch references to reject a first date with him.

ujm
if i wasn’t getting dates based on my references I would think the logical next step is to get new references

“some Roshei Yeshiva and Rabbanim will not be Mesader unless the Chossen signs one.”

We all know which “Yeshiva” that is, and it’s the only one in the country which advocates for it.

Might not be as bad and mamzer-making as the Lieberman clause, but give it a few years and a few more social media protestors and you’ll be hearing about kidushin al tanai and hafkaah

Ujm
You say as a fact that get Meuseh is kneed halacha and causes mamzeirus, I assume you are a ‘bar plugtah’ and know better than rav belsky,amongst other rabanim who was a strong advocate for them. I’m sure if these rabbonim spent as much time on yeshiva world, then they would know better.and they would be blown away by your arguments.

Getrdun – to be clear, rav belsky was NOT in favor of the ridiculous prenup of the RCA.

You are correct that he along with any other posek im familiar with, was in favor of coercion in the circumstances when a husband is obligated to divorce his wife and refuses.

Gittin intrinsically involve messy situations. And this has unfortunately carried over to many of the halachic aspects of divorce. If you really want to help, you would leave these topics to the experts. Making them into partisan issues, only makes it worse.

And that’s just the issue – the RCA have made themselves “experts” when the vast majority of its constituency are outmatched in learning by an average 22 year old BMG bochur.

@N0mesorah: gitin are an intrinsically Halachah-based issue. Putting other feelings before the letter of the Shulchan Aruch is not just a mistake but a travesty. There is no room for partisanship.
The Gemarah (Gitin 5A) is very clear that “כל השונה ממטבע שטבעו כחמים בגיטין יוציא והולד ממזר” which means that if you try to make an end run around what was proscribed by rabbinic authorities who are thousands of years farther up the chain of the mesorah than we are, the children WILL be mamzerim.

Dear Fake,

I am not endorsing anything, Chas V’shalom that anybody should read my post that way!

My point was that us as the laity should say that gittin are very complex and critical to the concept of a future klal yisrael, and it is better to be an agunah or lose some money than to use an invalid get.

That is the whole focus of what we should be saying. Because even though there could be bad gittin out there, the rabbonim have a round about way of working with each other to resolve these issues.

But now that people are clamoring on the street, it stifles the rabbinc channels, and forces an abrupt end to unresolved gittin. There are gittin out there that the husband never gave in any sense of the word, but the experts can detect these and deal with them. But they cannot deal with hordes of unruly ignorami. Be they MO, YV, or Hasidic.

The average of every constituency knows less than the twenty year old BMG bachur. The constituency of every group, includes women, all the kids, the working men, drop outs, and learning disabled. Those still learning full time are highly advanced. Why would anybody post such a statistically insignificant point?

Oh right! The author thinks that only the full time learner is in the yeshiva community. But not his kids, wife, parents, or siblings. That has been my response to you for over a year. I’m still waiting to see how you cope with this.

Nom, when i said an average BMG bochur outclasses an average RCA pulpit rabbi, i am referring to…rabbis. Not other classes. What i mean is that the amount of names put on something which happen to have the title “rabbi” next to it is meaningless, if those rabbis aren’t experts, and basically know what to tell you to do if milk hits your cholent pot.

And yes, it is very partisan for a group of rabbis to try and upheave marriages; it’s intentionally subversive, and they knew exactly what they were doing when they did it and how the rest of us would respond. Things like marriage and divorce, gerus, should be issues of mutual understanding, with one community not doing something which can, according to the other, result in mamzerim.

My snarky comments about MO, mamzerus and illicit relations holds true – while it’s also true that many rabbis in the Torah world uave been found to have been immoral, this is in spite of a communal abhorrence of such conduct. Vechen lo yayaseh. Are people of any background susceptible to the yatzer hora, especially if in a position of power? Definitely!

edited

Dear Ujm,

That is not what it means. Your posts on these morals are as Torah-less as a kids at risk whatsapp group. Come to think of it, you’re probably on those too!

AJ: It is Halachicly forbidden to have a girlfriend. (See Igros Moshe E.H. 4:60 for the Halachic citations.) The crowd that openly has girlfriends and proudly watches Hollywood flicks with miniskirted (and far worse) people is obviously going to have far more arayos than the crowd that doesn’t have girlfriends or watch movies.

Dear Avira,

I wasn’t talking about a few bad apples. Rather the best of the bunch issuing gittin that are halachically very questionable.

In certain ways, the MO set up is better than the YV when it comes to sticky problems. (Gittin, Kiddushin, Geirus, etc.)

Ujm is right; while arayos are a problem anywhere, first of all, “miutan barayos” – it’s a minority. But it’s simple and clear that if a community is lax in the gedorim which prevent arayos, and downplay the severity of the issue altogether, they are definitely going to have more of it than if not.

I have no idea where you got the fantasy that a large percentage of rabbonim who are involved in gitten are corrupt.

Also, for gerus…are you serious? MO produces gerim that are questionable on a regular basis – ever see ivanka trump? She admitted to not keeping every halacha, saying in an interview that “we’re more religious than some, less than others,” while walking around dressed like a shiksa.

And she’s far from the exception. MO converts often know and keep very little.

Lake….batei din aren’t mesader kidushin; that claim falls flat on its face.

The rema says if someone makes a knas on himself during kidushin that he’ll pay X amount if he divorces his wife, it’s a probable get mi’usa. Some rabbis, including a couple of actual poskim, say that the prenup is different, because it requires mezonos instead of a knas….i really don’t get what the difference is.