- This topic has 87 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 3 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
My thoughts on the case
Zimmerman will be found not guilty and rightfully so but he is not innocent he was told by law enforcement not to follow Trayvon and he didn’t listen because he was all gung ho about playing cops and robbers.
Trayvon is not Innocent he didn’t have to physically assault Zimmerman and this overreaction led to his death.
It has been posited by the prosecution that Trayvon spent the day before his death spending time with his future stepbrother they made it sound like he was such a nice young man to spend time with this younger lad so the question arises when did he have time to smoke a joint?
I don’t believe Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon if he had been a white kid acting the same way Zimmerman would have acted just the same.
Now everyone is wondering what will happen if the verdict comes in not guilty will there be racial rioting i am trying to understand the logic of the black leaders who would urge this on, they view Trayvon as an innocent who was murdered because he was black so how will people rioting and hurting other innocent people even the score?? there is no logical answer the Sharptons of the world are terrorists they prey on the emotions of their people and urge them to act out and cause mayhem.
Just a point of fact, a 911 operator is not law enforcement.
George Zimmerman’s defense claims that he was headed back to the car, per instructions of the 911 operator when Trayvon jumped him.
since he is being tried under the laws of the state of florida, he does not have to be innocent, he only needs to be found, not guilty
Point of fact: Who cares?
To your point about the rioting: that’s what always happens in these situations. When the cops were acquitted in the Rodney King trial, LA burned (I’m too young to remember, but my aunt, a Korean giyores who grew up in that part of LA,saw her parents’ store wrecked during the riots). No, it’s not logical, but it’s what happens, thanks to certain well-known agitators.
apushatayid: That’s in the whole country, actually.
You NEVER have to prove the defendant innocent. The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the prosecution
Goq, they didn’t tell him not to follow him they said ” Sir, you don’t need to follow him”. And they are not the law.
I’m not so sure about this. It depends on how liberal & PC the jury is.
And they probably will bring him up on Federal Civil Rights charges.
anothermother -“To your point about the rioting: that’s what always happens in these situations. When the cops were acquitted in the Rodney King trial, LA burned (I’m too young to remember, but my aunt, a Korean giyores who grew up in that part of LA,saw her parents’ store wrecked during the riots).”
I’m chuckling about your term “LA burned”. What happened during those riots -you couldn’t really call “burned”. I guess you never heard about the riots in the 60’s after the killing of MLK -during that time most inner cities “Burned”, including LA. A lot of Jewish businesses were destroyed. But I just read that in Phila., it wasn’t like other inner cities because the Mayor gave orders to his police to shoot to kill. This stopped them from having any serious riots.
Health, in the Rodney King Riots 53 people were killed, 2,000 injured, and billions of dollars of property damaged. I don’t get how you can downplay it.
rationalfrummie -“I don’t get how you can downplay it.”
I was downplaying it compared to the riots in the sixties.
To the Opening Poster: What is the basis of your statement, in your third paragraph that Trayvon Martin “did not have to jump” Zimmerman? We have not heard from young Mr. Martin on that point – and we never will – and we do not even know whether Mr. Martin “jumped” Mr. Zimmerman or was merely “standing his ground,” as permitted under a Florida statute.
One question I have not heard discussed: After the gunshot is heard on the recording in which someone is screaming for help, did the screaming stop? If so, why? Would a person with a gun who was being attacked, and then shot his attacker, not continue to seek help for the target of his gun? Or for his own life-threatening wounds?
In the absence of Mr. Martin, Mr. Zimmerman is free “recall” whatever will keep him out of jail.
Breaking news: Zimmerman won’t testify. A rebuttal witness has been called.
Point of fact: Who cares?
I beg your pardon? Are you aware that this is a high profile case that’s being televised nationally? Obviously the entire country cares and for good reason, this is very significant for a couple of different reasons.
If people wouldn’t care, this case would not have been high profile.
the Goq,
I just want to stress what MorahRach wrote, because it’s just infuriating how incorrect information gets spread by people with Special Interests and then gets accepted by everyone. GZ was NEVER TOLD not to follow TM. He was told “you don’t have to do that”. There’s a huge difference.
And what I fail to understand in this whole trial is something very simple; everyone agrees it’s impossible to know exactly what happened, even without all the evidence and testimony in GZ’s favor. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove GZ’s guilt BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.
If he’s found guilty, it will be a miscarriage of justice. But I’m hopeful the jury members are rational, honest people.
Good points shraga. This whole trial is a circus. From NBC editing the 911 recordings, to Obama saying ” that’s what my son would look like”, to GZ’s address being leaked and the death threats he received even before details of the night were revealed. Not to mention news outlets coming out saying that GZ had no defensive or other wounds even though we saw the footage after and once again they were called out. I’m surprised the judge rejected the aquitel plea.
Shraga18 -“If he’s found guilty, it will be a miscarriage of justice. But I’m hopeful the jury members are rational, honest people.”
Sorry to disagree -it’s already a miscarriage of Justice.
If this would have occured to a person of Zim’s race -there would have been no trial. All cases like this are decided by the local DA – why did they appoint a State Attorney for this case?
We have heard lie after lie fed to the media by the Gov.
Example – showing photos without injury of Zim to the media.
The Gov. has taken PC for certain segments of the pop. to the level where it steps on others’ civil rights!
Health,
I agree, this should never have come to trial. If and when the jury returns a not-guilty on all counts verdict, I really hope the camera shows Angela Corey’s face at that very moment…
My main point here is that Zimmerman is not faultless, he is not guilty of second degree murder but his conscious should not be clear.
Well, I don’t even know if that is true. I mean, it might be true, depending on how the story went down. But if the story really is as he says that he was going back to his car and Martin jumped him and then punched him in the nose and then got on top and started pummeling him into the sidewalk saying “you’re going to die tonight”–well then, I think his conscience should be pretty clear.
See, the whole problem here is that we really know very little about what happened that night. I’m not convinced he is innocent, if the standard was guilty until proven innocent, he would certainly be not innocent. But in court, the standard is innocent until proven guilty, so he is not guilty.
And in the court of my boich, the standard is that if I have no idea what happened, I pretty much just back out of it.
The police officer who interviewed him after it happened said he was sad/upset when he heard MT had died. From all we’ve heard about GZ during this trial (i.e. that he seems to be a really really nice person) I’m sure he’ll carry that burden around with him for the rest of his life.
I think the fact that this trial is on major news networks will make a difference in its outcome.
It’s significant for what reason?
This is quite possible. Another possibility is him being found guilty on 3rd degree Murder based on “Child Abuse”. The “Judge” has Not yet ruled on this option. I hope the Jury finds him Not guilty on all charges, in spite of the Govs.’ persecution of this guy Zim.
If found guilty now or later (if there is a Federal case), then this will be America’s (US) “Dreyfuss Affair”!
Usually when someone does something with criminal intent they try to cover it up. I think its astonishing how much forensic evidence supports the story exactly as Zimmerman has reported it.
There are many people who are saying Zimmerman should not have followed Trayvon and if he did not the shooting would have never happened. I believe this argument is completely false.
There were two stages of Zimmerman’s interactions with Trayvon. One was at the clubhouse. It appears on the non emergency call to authorities that Zimmerman was afraid of the suspect. In a hushed tone he told the operator that it appears that Trayvon is “checking me out”. The operator tells Zimmerman can you tell me where he is now? Zimmerman then relates that he lost him because he started running. Zimmerman then gets out of the clubhouse parking spot with his vehicle and goes in the direction that Trayvon went. To this point no tells Zimmerman not to follow.
The next stage starts when we hear Zimmerman again tell the operator that he lost him and try unsuccessfully to pinpoint his location. He tells the operator that he will try to find Trayvon. The operator suggests that he does not have to. Zimmerman says okay. Around this time Zimmerman mutters “F— punks always get away”.
Now comes the conflicting stories. The Prosecution wants to claim that his cursing shows ill will and a intent to kill when he went supposedly went after Trayvon.
The problem is we have zero evidence at this point that Zimmerman tried to follow Trayvon. Zimmerman in his reenactment clearly says he went across the T to find a lit area so he can see a house address so the police know where to meet him. It’s also hard to believe that a guy who had earlier been intimidated by Trayvon checking him out all of a sudden decided that he is unafraid to follow him. It is far more plausible that Zimmerman believed that Trayvon ran away and wasn’t coming back. Since he himself had told the dispatcher “F— punks always get away”. Since he felt that Trayvon already had left the area he felt comfortable walking around to look for a house address. It also makes sense why he got so startled when Trayvon confronted him because he believed that Trayvon had already left.
Any other theory is unsupported and purely speculation.
adamemes1 -“Any other theory is unsupported and purely speculation.”
I applaud your theory, which is plausable and makes sense. I never even thought of this because the whole country is bombarded with this Gov. who are only doing this to please a segment of society. If your theory would have been brought to the public -they would wonder why there is a criminal case here. There would have never been a case if the Gov. wouldn’t consider certain segments of society above the rest of us. Liberalism is a failure, just like Communism was!
The judge denied possible 3rd degree felony child abuse earlier today.
Someone created an online game called “Angry Trayvon”. Hashem yeracheim.
Health – when you label any view or opinion which is not yours as ‘PC’ some sort of code, not sure what it means, its’ always thrown around. like PC is bad and then the other side of the coin is good.
This case especially is not black and white.
THe problem as I see it, each perspective has a narrative. If you think Z should get no punishment or that he even should have been arrested, this is because you buy into his exact version, that he was for no reason attacked with a severity which made him decide that he must kill or be killed.
However, my main problem with that scenario, is the kid was not wrong in where he was at the time, the fundamental foundation of the story.
So in a way at fault is the system of ID’s or the flow process whereby an innocent person, i.e. one who has reason to be in that gated community is never acted upon in any way.
Is this “PC”? I am troubled by the fact that he was abusing these drugs. One of them, it tells you – must sleep for 7 hours upon taking this. So he abused the drugs.
So why does he get such a pass by the ‘non PC’ crowd?
If he were drunk it would be a slam dunk. THese drugs are probably worse even than alchohol. oh i mean taken in non moderation.
Thus, I am neutral in this trial because I don’t know what really happened. But heavy drugs like this at play, is not a good defense.
I don’t condone pot-smoking, but TM had pot in his system, whereas Zimmerman had heavy psychiatric drugs in his system, and was still out being a vigilante. What crackpot psychiatrist prescribed Zimmerman these drugs? And this also shows Zimmerman is mentally ill.
If he is found guilty of anything, it is a sham!!!
adams and rebdoniel,
The drugs GZ took don’t change one very simple fact: if there’s reasonable doubt that the defense’s version is what actually happened, the jury must acquit. That’s the law. Drugs or no drugs. All that’s needed is reasonable doubt, which any reasonable person has to admit is there.
THe problem as I see it, each perspective has a narrative. If you think Z should get no punishment or that he even should have been arrested, this is because you buy into his exact version, that he was for no reason attacked with a severity which made him decide that he must kill or be killed.
Inaccurate. It doesn’t mean I buy into his version–it just means I am not sure beyond reasonable doubt that his version is wrong.
pba is right. convictions in the US dont, or at least shouldnt, be toluy in the emotions of society and the jury. there are specific criteria for the jury to convict. its that simple.
Someone needs to set up a pidyon shvuyim fund for this guy. He’s getting railroaded.
Adderall is hardly a “heavy psychiatric drug”. It’s routinely prescribed to elementary school children.
It’s still a psychotropic drug, and the fact that people run to a shrink over every little disturbance in life shows that we’re in an over-medicated society (Prozac nation, if you will), and that there is s tendency to pathologize and diagnose what amounts to spinelessness, an inability to cope, and a lack of resiliency in many cases. No wonder why most psychiatric clinical trials are funded by Big Pharma (6 months before adderall came out, there were tons of ADD/ADHD studies being published in the journals).
I don’t think anyone “run
to a shrink over every little disturbance in life”. On the contrary, I think most people are afraid of the stigma of seeing a therapist and will refuse to go, claiming they “don’t need therapy”. Everyone, I mean every SINGLE person, can benefit from therapy. It’s just a question of finding a good fit (which, granted, can be extremely difficult).
Ask people who process insurance claims, or who work for SSI.
Do more people utilize therapy than I thought? Good. I hope they do. SSI is for people with low-income and disabilities– in other words, a vulnerable population. Lambasting them for “spinelessness” and an “inability to cope” is heartless and doesn’t make their situation any better.
this case should not have gone to court,Zimmerman in not guilty
he shot MT in self defense and the proof is there was grass on his back that means he was on bottom and mt was on top of his shirt and the prosecution’s case for murder is built on “could’ve beens” and “maybes.”
Goq: No one can ever be innocent because there is no one in the world that has never done anything wrong. Rather “innocence” is a relative term that requires a comparison to the actual charges in each case. Here, the charge is second degree murder and manslaughter. George Zimmerman is innocent with regard to these charges (assuming innocence until there is evidence to the contrary). Therefore I must disagree with you, George Zimmerman IS innocent.
The prosecution has little to no case at this point. But that doesn’t change the fact that GZ is a menuval.
the state makes Zimmerman look like a monster a wanna be cop he actually say no the wanna be cop civilian patrol with yellow lights and police laptop and saying other kind comments
adams -“Health – when you label any view or opinion which is not yours as ‘PC’ some sort of code, not sure what it means, its’ always thrown around. like PC is bad and then the other side of the coin is good.”
Now you’re finally seeing the Light!
“This case especially is not black and white.”
You’re right Zim is Hispanic and it was still PC to trump up all these charges.
“THe problem as I see it, each perspective has a narrative. If you think Z should get no punishment or that he even should have been arrested, this is because you buy into his exact version, that he was for no reason attacked with a severity which made him decide that he must kill or be killed.”
So you don’t know which version is right -so is it Innocent until Proven Guilty or is It Guilty until Proven Innocent?
“However, my main problem with that scenario, is the kid was not wrong in where he was at the time, the fundamental foundation of the story.”
So therefore he couldn’t intiate an attack on Zim?!? Ridiculous!
Is this “PC”? I am troubled by the fact that he was abusing these drugs. One of them, it tells you – must sleep for 7 hours upon taking this. So he abused the drugs.
But heavy drugs like this at play, is not a good defense.”
These are normal drugs given to normal people -so you are defaming him by saying abusing. Yes, sometimes they have side effects, but given that they are prescribed -the PCP will address those issues. So the asumption is these drugs are helping the pt., not hindering. If “Pot” is legal in the State of Fl. did Martin have a prescription for it? I really don’t think so. Your whole post is based on what is PC, not based on this country’s Constitution and laws. How about reading the Bill of Rights before condenming people based on what is popular in our Society?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.