"frum" boys who smoke

I have a friend whose husband was an older single boy until he married her. He smoked until he got married (she didn’t find out until right before they got engaged or she probably would never have ended up going out with him or marrying him). When he mentioned that he used to smoke, I was shocked because he is a really serious Ben Torah and very straight and shtark. He explained that as an older single boy (maybe even just as a bochur even w/o the older part), he needed an outlet. He needed to do something that felt “rebellious” but was not actually assur (at least not in the way that movies, hanging out with girls, etc. are), so that’s why he smoked. My impression is that is why a lot of bochurim smoke.

Until I heard that, I was very judgmental of people who smoke. But once he said that I could hear the logic in it. Personally, I still would probably be very reluctant to go out with someone who smokes, but I think that is an emotional reaction. The fact is that I would understand (to some degree) if an older single boy felt a need to watch movies occasionally, and smoking is certainly no worse (probably better).

It is also important to keep in mind that even if smoking is assur, I think that only applies to smoking an amount that would lead to addiction. I know a Talmid Chacham who smokes once a week because he said that doesn’t lead to addiction.

It is also important to remember that “hevei dan es kol haadam l’kaf zchus” applies to those who smoke as well. Tisha B’Av just ended and it’s almost Yom Kippur. Let’s try to judge favorably – maybe those people who are smoking would be doing something worse if not smoking.

Sparkly – true. I think his plan was always to stop smoking once he got married; he just felt it was something he needed to do while he was single. It’s definitely better than other things singles do like not being shomer negiah & not keeping hilchos tznius, etc.

Sam2 she said it was pikuach nefesh. He was responding to that. He didn’t say it was mutar.

LU many young guys start to smoke for various reasons, foremost and stupidest among them is to feel cool. Many of them keep smoking all their life. The way to fight that is to be critical of smoking. By saying it’s understandable and that a girl who wouldn’t go out with a smoker is illogical you are encouraging it.

A girl might still choose to go out with a smoker if she understands that people aren’t perfect, and that she isn’t perfect either. Smoking is very bad and smokers are human. Why can’t it be just that?

Sam2 – perhaps. But either way, that wasn’t what we were talking about, as I pointed out (or at least not what I was talking about).

Sparkly, Wolf- are u allowed to b mechalel shabbos to stop someone from smoking?…NO, so obviously it’s not pikuach nefesh because then u would be mechalel shabbos to stop someone

kaganys -“There are a lot of choshuve serious bnei Torah that Learn all day that smoke.

It’s not halachikly wrong”

You’re wrong! I listed many Rabbonim that said it’s Osser!

Health- that doesn’t mean that a lot of choshuve bnei Torah smoke

According to the many poskim who state that it is assur to smoke, why do you think it is that so many “chashuve serious bnei torah” continue to smoke? Why do you think the mashgichim and roshei yeshiva dont immediately address the issue and put a stop to it? If there were “chashuva serious bnei torah” who ate lunch at mcdonalds every day surely it would be addressed and dealt with. Why is different?

there is a difference. walls are plastered with kol koresi about tznius. every tzara r’l to befall klal yisroel has been blamed on the lack of tznius by someone, somewhere. asifas are held to be michzek people against the dangers of “technology”. organizations created to help filter technology. smoking? nary a word. no asifas, kol korehs, nothing. not even when a young person drops r’l from lung cancer.

apushatayid the right way to decide asur and mutar is by reading what the torah says and trying to understand it to the best of your abilities. That’s what hashem gave you brain for.

If you are bewildered by the way the gdoylim handle the situation you are welcome to ask them. But you are not patur from doing what the torah tells you.

Person1 – we only know what the Torah wants from us by listening to our Gedolim. The Torah doesn’t talk about smoking directly. We only know whether or not it is assur based on what our Gedolim tell us.

Sparkly: 1. That doesn’t contradict what I wrote. 2. Your Rabbi says that it’s muttar to not be shomer nogeiah and not dress tzniusly, but that it’s assur to smoke?!!! It that is true, I can’t say I think very highly of your Rabbi. And you have said that someone who keeps nothing but Shabbos and Kashrus is Frum, yet, now you are saying that someone who smokes is otd?!! That is ridiculous!

My point was not that it’s muttar to smoke, but that there are different categories of something being assur. For example, smoking can not be compared to not being shomer negiah which is an outright aveirah either D’Oraisah or D’rabbanim l’chol hadeios!

Because according to the Torah it’s assur to not be shomer negiah or not dress tzniusly.

lilmod ulelamaid: “we only know what the Torah wants from us by listening to our Gedolim” The torah says you should not harm yourself. Smoking is harmful. What is there to ask?

But even if for some reason you thought that you should ask a rabbi, go ask them. But to say “because they don’t say anything they’re probably ok with it” is very very wrong. You should take responsibility for your actions. You don’t have to wait for anyone to tell you something is wrong when it’s clear it’s wrong.

1/4 of the people texting and driving get into accident, 1/100 actually die from smoking so surely texting and driving is OTD

kaganys someone who texts and drive is a rozeach. Probably shogeg karov lemezid. So probably not a great example.

Im not gonna even read the comments all I can say is that can we stop labeling people “otd”/ “frum” who are we to judge!?!? According to hashem people who say they’re frum might not be as frum as they think and vice versa. You believe in hashem???? That’s the main!!!!

By the way we learned that one is mechiyav to watch his house burn down on shabbos if he will be oiver on a Melacha tostop the fire (unless it’s a place that has houses in close distance) …I know this is abit random but isn’t it a matter of pekuach nefesh and yet shabbos is still prioritized

Happygirlygirl – You are only allowed (and supposed) to let your house burn down if no one will be hurt. That’s why (as you pointed out) if there are houses nearby, you would be required to put it out. It there is any chance of pikuach nefesh, you are REQUIRED to put it out as fast as possible!!!!

Person1: The Torah says you shouldn’t do things that are harmful, but exactly what falls in that category is not clear. We have Gedolim to figure out the exact parameters of what is included in that issur.

Many things are harmful but not assur. Living is dangerous – do you know that every second of life brings you closer to death? Not getting enough sleep, having bad eating habits, etc are all harmful but not assur. Driving and crossing streets are two of the most dangerous things to do, but no one says it’s assur. The chances of getting killed IMMEDIATELY each time you cross the street or drive are probably greater than the chances of getting killed by a cigarette while smoking one.

Using cellphones is dangerous. Living in places where there is more pollution than others is dangerous.

The point is that we do dangerous things all the time, but they are not necessarily halachically assur. We have to continually make decisions in our lives and weigh things out. Why do we drive if it’s dangerous? Because it is important to be able to get places and that is more important than the dangers involved. You might die sooner, but if you don’t drive, you may not be able to have a meaningful and productive life and that is more important. That is the reason why people do all sorts of unhealthy things.

I once saw a boy who looked like a kid-at-risk type smoking at the bus stop. A lady started giving him mussar and telling him how dangerous it is. He responded, “Lady, I’m not smoking because I think it’s healthy.”

Maybe this boy was so depressed that he was thinking of committing suicide and he was smoking as a way of dealing with his depression instead. Or maybe it was an alternative to drug use.

A baalas teshuva I know told me that she started smoking when she was in the Israeli Army because she had such a stressful job and it was the only way she was able to deal with the stress (her job was calling people up for reserve duty – she had her life threatened on occasion, and someone even held a knife up to her throat once!). Obviously, from a Torah perspective, she shouldn’t have been in the army in the first place, but she didn’t know that at the time, and she thought it was something she had to do even if it meant that she would end up smoking.

Let me make it clear. I am not advocating smoking!! I think it is a terrible thing to do!!! But- the fact that it is dangerous does not NECESSARILY render it a clear-cut Issur D’oraissa. People continually have to make choices in life. We have a Torah that lays out for us those things that are clear-cut Issurim. Beyond that, we have to make choices and prioritize. It is not fair for one person to put down another person because he seems to be making different choices than us. Maybe that person is going through a really difficult time and smoking is the only thing that will get him through it. He is putting himself at risk of eventually developing lung cancer, but meanwhile he will have 10,20, 50 years of productivity that he may not have had otherwise.

And honestly, I am not sure statistically that picking up a cigarette and smoking on occasion significantly raises one’s chances of lung cancer. I haven’t done a survey, but all the bochurim that I know who smoked only did so for a short period of time and stopped before they got married. Yes, there is a risk that someone will get addicted, but I’m not sure how significant a risk it is, and as I said, people have to weigh things out and make decisions. Smoking a cigarette is not like jumping off a bridge which is how some people are making it sound!

Wolf -I don’t think that Kagany was saying that it’s not dangerous -just that it’s not pikuach nefesh which is how some people were making it sound. Dangerous/unhealthy and pikuach nefesh are not the same.

Disclaimer: I can’t say that I read every word in every post on this thread, so I may have missed something.