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Sparkly,
I’d rather not give too much info about myself.
Yes, mostly physics and math and some biology and chem classes.
Sparkly: All throughout high school and several college-level courses. I have also tutored high school and college students in biology and chemistry.
Thanks for the heads up Sparkly 🙂
Science is the study of nature. The concept of nature is the denial of g-d. The vast majority of scientists are atheist. Religious Catholics who are trying to have their children taught creationism in public school but are being opposed by your scientists. Are there some Religious Scientist? Yes. The same logic that says smoking causes cancer can be used to say the study of science causes atheism.
i smoke and am pretty religious dont think im otd
i dont understand the label otd, as jews we do many things and are not allowed to do many other things. some ppl have failings in some things and some in others but we are all jews tryting to be good jews so why the hate and labeling
none of us is perfect so one action does not define who we are. so if u have a hangup about smoking (its debatable whether its assur or not) then please refrain from broad brush painting ppl
hiram – I don’t think she means to hate with her labeling. She just seems to perseverate a lot on otd and mo and it kinda comes up in all the conversations. I feel bad for newcomers cuz it sounds kinda insulting but I know that if the mods don’t let the posts thru they get blamed for that too.
syag hear that no offense taken personally, just dont think think its a rational forum with that kind of talk
hiram king of tyre -“(its debatable whether its assur or not)”
It’s Not debatable, just there are a lot of people who are in denial about the fact that addicted to smoking is a big Aveira!
Anyone who says smoking is OTD is completely messed up because it may be wrong, unhealthy, stupid, or dangerous but it does not make someone OTD!!!!!!!!
Health- Some of the Greatest people (Rosh Hayeshavas) smoked in previous generations. Are you saying that they too are sinners? There is a Gammarah in Chullin concerning the donkey of R’ Pincos Ben Yair, that G-d wouldn’t let it eat grain that wasn’t tithed because it was a sin, so surely G-d wouldn’t permit the Tzadick to sin. But you hold that these Saintly Rabbis who smoked are sinners, you are rewriting history.
Nobody is perfect. Smoking is bad but you can’t define the whole person by one traithabit. You can’t judge someone’s yiras shomaim by a single trait or habit.
And what does it mean “considered otd ” should they be despised as otd? Well are you supposed to hate otd people?
Or does it mean they are at risk of abandoning the torah? That doesn’t make sense.
Or does it mean the community shouldn’t condone smoking and smokers? The western world is going in that direction. I don’t like it myself. I think individuality is more important than health risks. But I can live with that.
Many frum people think they know the single formula to being a good jew (“?? ????? ??????? ?? ???”) some say it’s not having a computer and internet. Others say it’s never having a job and staying in kolel all your life. Now I heard about not smoking being the most important. The fact is the torah is bigger than any of that.
Sparkly- I say that because it just happens to be that smoking is not OTD. If u said it was OTD to drive a car I would say your messed up so too here u say smoking is OTD so I’m saying that your messed up
I would like to apologize for my comments regarding someones ability to write. My criticism didn’t correct the problem and so serves no purpose. I am sorry if you were offended.
Smokers now a days are rebelling against society, if you treat them badly or even call them OTD, that maybe the straw that breaks the camel’s back and causes them to really go OTD.
Abba-S -“Health- Some of the Greatest people (Rosh Hayeshavas) smoked in previous generations. Are you saying that they too are sinners? But you hold that these Saintly Rabbis who smoked are sinners, you are rewriting history.”
Your whole post is Absurd! The length that some people will go to defend smokers & smoking.
First of all, who said smoking was dangerous back then?!?
A lot of sickness is probably from the additives that’s in the cig.
Secondly, maybe it was B’shogeg? Even Moshe Rabbeynu did Aveira.
I would say your messed up
I’m saying that your messed up
I’m saying that your grammar is messed up.
(Try using “you’re” instead.)
The Wolf
Sparkly-It’s a BIGGER insult to call someone OTD
And by the way, many of the rabbonim Lakewood smoke 3 packs a day
WolfishMusings – how do you consider that NOT an insult?
I don’t believe I commented on whether it was an insult one way or the other. All I did was correct the person’s spelling.
The Wolf
And by the way, many of the rabbonim Lakewood smoke 3 packs a day
Is that an argument in favor of smoking? All it proves is that even the biggest talmidei chachamim can do stupid things.
The Wolf
WolfishMusings – that is an insult.
Why? Do you think that intelligent people (and even righteous people) are somehow immune from making very poor (and, yes, stupid) decisions?
An insult would be calling the person stupid him/herself. I did not (and would not) do that. But calling a specific action stupid or wrong is not an insult.
Just to bring the point home — my mother smoked. It was a stupid thing for her to do. But she, herself was not stupid.
The Wolf
I was kidding about that
WolfishMusings – never said that. i was just saying that i got insulted.
My apologies. I misunderstood what you were saying.
The Wolf
Sparkly what I meant is that it’s ok to say smoking is wrong and that asur. But if you say people who smoke are otd you make the torah about one thing. Suppose I said: “People who have smartphons should be considered otd” (some people would say that) how would you react?
Sparkly,
I don’t see how that’s very different. Perhaps a little different, but not much.
If you assume that smoking is assur, and that smartphones are assur, then what Person1 said is very similar to what you said.
Sparkly I don’t like to have to guess what you mean and answer accordingly. If you want to argue please state your opinion clearly. This is just a waste of time.
Sparkly,
First of all, I said “if you assume smartphones are assur…”
I never said they are assur, but there are those who say that they are.
Secondly, smoking is not pikuach nefesh. If it were pikuach nefesh then it would be permissible for one to be mechalel shabbos in order to stop another person from smoking. Since we all know that it is not permissible to do so, the logical deduction is that smoking is not pikuach nefesh. QED
Sparkly just take another example: someone who listens to music on sfirat a’omer, or a guy who listens to female singers, or someone who speaks lashon arah. Surely you can find one example.
It’s obvious that you feel strongly about smoking but that’s no reason to throw words. It’s a great way to provoke but a bad way to convey a messages.
As for why I think smartphones are asur we could continue this in the off-topic thread if you like.
I tried to start it there but it got deleted. I’m not sure whether it was because of the content or the place. You can try opening the subject there if you like (and maybe you can even explain why do you think they aren’t asur) and if your post isn’t deleted then we know it’s safe to carry on.
Smartphones are not assur they r 100% ????
And u c we have proof from the Torah that smoking is not pikuach nefesh
And u c we have proof from the Torah that smoking is not pikuach nefesh
OK, I’ll bite. I’d love to hear this. What’s the proof from the Torah that smoking isn’t dangerous?
The Wolf
Wolf – I think it’s in the pasuk right after the one that says smartphones are 100% mutar
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