Fresh Broccoli

As far as I know is only frozen broccoli can be used. Eden is the best frozen brand.

My Rav says not to eat fresh broccoli as it cannot be checked right. But that doesn’t mean it’s your psak as well. Ask your LOR I guess?

Just as a side point, every single recipe I came across with broccoli, can be substituted for frozen. Maybe try that. I buy the greenhouse grown from Eden and that is all I’m allowed to buy according to this Rav.

btw hows married life?

also btw the OK has an app for checking vegitables

Rabbi Falk (Gateshead) has a booklet called “Madrich l’bedikat tolaim”.

He goes through all the vegetables and fruits and explains how to check them.

He explains that for broccoli, it’s easiest to remove the florets (to discard) and just rinse and inspect the stems.

The florets can be checked, but insects are harder to see because they tend to be darker in color, closely resembling the color of the broccoli. He recommends using a white or light yellow bowl, filling it with warm water (which causes the insects to loosen their grip) without salt. He says salt clouds the water.

Dip the broccoli in the water and run your thumb over some of the florets to loosen them. Swirl the broccoli in the water vigorously a few times, then remove and shake it over the water like a thermometer. Check the water surface after half a minute and remove anything suspicious onto a white napkin or white paper plate. Next, inspect the bottom the same way after pouring off a bit of the water.

The broccoli is edible if you find nothing.

Cauliflower is considered easier as infestation is less common. Cut off the bottom primary stem and accompanying leaves. Cut the cauliflower into florets and cut those in half, bending them a bit so you can see clearly. Soak it in salt water as a precaution (and check the surface of the water). It can be used if no insects are found. He says to discard the top of the stems if you find a green fly or thrips as it would be impossible to check the rest carefully enough for further infestation. Black flies (up to two on a head) are not considered problematic. You remove them and do what was written above to make sure all is clear (I actually look at the head wrapped in plastic before I buy. I have sometimes seen a fly on top of the head just inside the plastic wrap).

I always wondered… We say bugs are only assur if they are visible, right? What if the bug is visible as a speck, but it’s impossible to identify as a bug with the unaided eye? Is that bug still assur?

A kashrus expert whom I observed doing a demonstration of bedikas tolaim a number of years ago showed that if you parboil broccoli, then slice open the florets, you will find (or hopefully, not find) blackened bugs (somewhat like sesame seeds). For this reason, he explained, fresh broccoli should never be used. Parboiling is required to see if those bugs are there. The bugs are large enough to be observed but their color makes them very difficult (though not impossible) to identify in fresh broccoli. It was my understanding that the kosher companies either provide a controlled environment or check in such a fashion that there is no mi’ut hamatzuy.

Removing florets won’t solve all problems. Cabbage loopers, a white or white/green or black caterpillar like thing about 1/2″ generally lodges in the stem joints. I learned this after soaking, soaping, trimming and checking florets in cauliflower.

curiosity;your point is well taken. In reality bugs would only be ossur if you can see them with the naked eye. Using any artificial means (even glasses) really do not make them “ossur’ because, very simply, if you use artificial means- “ein ledovor sof”. Why stop at glasses, magnifying glasses, microscopes up to the most sophisticated magnifying microscopes.

Nonetheless, a “ruach’ of “chumros’ has taken root in recent years and so, you have all these convoluting means to ‘clean’ vegetables.

In practice, I do the normal thing like soaking in salt water, rinsing the vegetables carefully and if you so require-repeat.

You cannot require the masses to go to abnormal length as we are not angels.

The Goq- that’s the reason our Rav allows only greenhouse grown.

UGH, I so do not want to eat veggies anymore.

I worked as a mashgiach in several restaurants over summers. I would be extra careful with bugs, and if I wasnt sure what the speck was, I would wash the food again. Eventually my eyes started to hurt from staring at these tiny specks for hours at a time to try and make out legs or heads. The thought went through my mind that the Torah in its darchei noam couldn’t possibly be expecting us to strain our eyes so badly over a tiny black speck floating in a vat of water. It just felt like “too much hishtadlus”…

The rea question is where do you buy it? I cant find it ANYWHERE!

rob: If a Tanna or Amora’s vision wasn’t at par, surely he would ask someone else with good vision to check rather than rely on his own subpar vision.

DY you’re stretching what I said. All I’m saying is that it shouldn’t be physically painful to have to eat something that’s inherently kosher. RoB put it well.. where’s the limit?

I find it very difficult to imagine vegetables with soil still on them, being washed in clay vessels, with no soap would have been inspected for black specks that are too small to identify as bug or dirt. The average Jew 3000 years ago didn’t have crystal clear running water, light-up cutting boards, or steel spoons to scoop black specks from tubs of water. Yet, they still ate their veggies somehow. Unless we have a bigger chiyuv of hishtadlus to not eat bugs (b/c of technology), I don’t see why it was okay for them to do it one way but not for us.

DY: Our levels of infestation are higher? I would have thought that with modern farming and the use of some (still-legal) pesticides that our levels of infestation would be much, much lower. And we do see some Achronim advocating not eating certain fruits. But no one Assered all vegetables, which is what they would have had to have done if our standards were applied to them. Am I the only person who finds it more than curious that the Achronim don’t explain how to check individual vegetables. Pashtus is they just looked and if they saw nothing then it was fine.

I did once hear something on this topic from a tremendous Talmid Chacham. He said that back in the day, it was hard to live as a human being, let alone a Jew. You would have to work a ton just to get a tiny bit of food and nighttime was almost unusable because candles were expensive and there were no lights. Nowadays, where it’s much, much easier just to be a human being, we can afford to place more restrictions on ourselves as Jews.

Oomis

The one thing that helps me reframe the bugs on vegetables issue, is that I reconsider that they typically only go to healthier foods, and rarely to items such as chocolate or chips. I figure, those tiny buggers are onto something (literally and figuratively!).

Sam2 – hmm, I think I made a fool of myself, there. You’re joking, of course.

Did someone say broccoli? YUCK!!!

Hi Sweetie, Git Voch. I was told by a baki in kashrus that one can avoid problems with bugs by only buying Grade A produce when buying fresh vegetables. Naturally, they should still be checked.

A friend told me that her mother would hold fresh broccoli over a flame, & if there were bugs present, they would fall out when exposed to the heat. I tried it once, and bugs did fall out, but if no bugs fall out, what is the proof that there were none present?

I also once heard in a shiur that soaking vegetables in salt water has the result of the bugs clinging more tightly. Though the florets are good, if I were to use fresh broccoli, I would cut off the florets & only use the stalks. I haven’t used fresh cauliflower in years, and I really miss it! I still think it’s safer to buy frozen vegetables with a reliable hashgocha.

Your Meema Yehudis

My family separates the florets from the stalks, puts the florets in a bowl of salted water, let it sit for 10 minutes, then discards the water, and refills the bowl, adding some vinegar and a small amount of dish detergent to the water. The first soak dislodges some bugs, but more are dislodged on the second soak. The final step is to discard the water, and then pour hot, but not boiling, water over the florets. If bugs are still turning up, then we just use the stems.

Sam2: Unless I’m misinformed, the bugs in broccoli melt under high heat. There’s also a Sfek Sfeka to rely on if they don’t.

Hmm..just noticed this. We only say Sfek Sfeka on d’rabbonin. Insects in broccoli is d’orayssa so no sfek sfeka.

i found a worm growing from a branch. so i ate it.

Sam2 Hold on…if a safek doraysa we go l’chumrah kal v’ chomer a sfek sfeka on a d’orayasa would go l’chumra hence you can only have a sfek sfeka to be meikal on a d’rabbonan. You can’t have a sfek sfeka on a d’oraysa l’hakel.