Food stamps for avreichim

Food stamps are for people who qualify. The state makes the rules and makes the qualifications so that people who they want to qualify will qualify.

Therefore, if kollel people qualify, they are the ones the state intends the program for.

I am kind of bothered by your assumptions.

sorry it’s the first group (those not making enough money), because if you have a job but still not making enough you can still get government assistance

In terms of Dina D’malchusa, as long as one meets the financial requirements for food stamps (legitimately meets them, without under-reporting and other common tricks of the MOFES trade), one is, I suppose, legally entitled to recieve and use food stamps.

Whether one – especially a kollel avreich who is supposedly spending long days immersed in God’s Word – wants to conduct their life based solely on whether or not they are violating the strict letter of the secular law is another question entirely. Even if one is ENTITLED to recieve food stamps, perhaps it is important for each person to conduct a cheshbon hanefesh and decide whether this is an entitelment and right that they should be excercising. We all have the right to burn the U.S. flag, protest same-sex marriage in extreme ways (think Westboro Baptist Church), and to drive 5 mph down a crowded street with many cars stuck behind us. That does not mean we need to do it, or that we should do it. As Jews, we should to the extent possible (depending on our individual situations) strive for more. We shouldn’t be content to meet the bare minimum requirements of good members of society; we should strive to be the finest examples of human beings that we can be. Perhaps that means we shouldn’t always take everything we are “entitled” to. I don’t know. But I think it behooves everyone considering MOFES options to do a real cheshbon hanefesh to determine whether in their circumstances, and considering the choices they have made about how to live their lives, taking what your “entitled” to is really the right thing to do.

As an aside, early on, my wife and I were in a position as to be entitled to food stamps and WIC. We decided not to take them because by cutting our budget in other places, we could manage. We did, however, take State-provided medical insurance for our newborn child (not for ourselves, we were covered with private insurance already) for 8 months because the expense of private insurance for her – and the dangers of having no insurance – were too much to bear otherwise. 8 months later, as soon as we could place her on private insurance that we paid for ourselves, we took her off the State-provided insurance. Again, each must make their own cheshbon, I think.

Anybody who meets the gov. guidelines can take it, whether they are looking for work or not.

“If it’s for the second reason, than how could people learning in kollel accept food stamps if they aren’t looking for work?”

I think there is an exception for students. Kollel guys are students.

It seems we can add the Rambam to the growing list of MOs.

Depending on your definition. Without question, the Rambam was a Charad L’Dvar Hashem.

Whether one – especially a kollel avreich who is supposedly spending long days immersed in God’s Word – wants to conduct their life based solely on whether or not they are violating the strict letter of the secular law is another question entirely.

The Gedolim have Paskined that Limud HaTorah overrides any concern regarding what others might think. After all, Limud is what protects the USA & Israel (Netrei Karta), not the Millitary (Cheruvei Karta). Kollel is cost beneficial.

PBA: Goes to the question if food stamps are ???? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ?????

Name one Gadol who was/is on food stamps.

And which psak from any Gadol are you quoting which says “that Limud HaTorah overrides any concern regarding what others might think”.

The Degel HaTorah & Agudah parties in Israel, who claim to do nothing without approval from the “Gedolim”.

THe Agudah (and specificly the Roshei Yeshivos of a certain town) in the US, who is willing to “approve” of someone who votes for Toeiva Marriage, because they give/vote money to Yeshivos.

Now granted, there are those who disagree (Rav Miller was one, Rav Shteinman may be another, and my guess is that Rav Moshe, Rav Yaakov & Rav Ruderman would have been appalled), but it doesn’t seem to be the norm in this day and age.

gavra, are you realy using a “psak” (I’m not sure its a psak, as opposed to a general principle, a “klal gadol” that cannot be applied to concrete situations without further evaluation) from the leaders of Israeli political parties to justify a practice by individuals who do not constitute a political party in the United States?

I, for one, wonder what the effects on future generations will be on becoming acclimated to food stamps, welfare, section 8 housing, and other entitlements. I know that most of us are careful about what we bring into the house; TV, internet, magazines, etc. I know most of us are careful about where we go(especially with children). Yet many are running full speed ahead into bringing an entitlement mentality into the home; seemingly without thinking of possible consequences.

GAW, the only Gadol (that I am aware of) who paskened something like this was R’ Moshe because he assumed that the Goyim are not going to have ta’anos. Needless to say a very shvere assumption. And no, nowhere does it say that Talmud Torah doche Chillul HaShem and Eiva.

And certainly if the food stamp “benificary” is not really learning or looking for employment, it would be assur for the same reason that it’s assur to gamble; because his action did nothing to promote the benefit of society.

GAW, who was R’ Chanina ben Tradion’s wife to know that her husband was wrong and should be rebuked? Gemora in AZ faults her for failing to do so.

What is your definition of Chillul HaShem? Or you are still trying to figure out the definition of MO?

R’ Chanina ben Tradion’s wife vs. R’ Chanina ben Tradion. Who is correct?

The undisputed gadol of the dor, the Admou”r meCreedmoor, prints his own food stamps and EBT cards to avoid any sofek of kiddush Hashem!

who do you think you are to belittle Gedolim?! and Rmoshe did not, ever, make shvere assumptions. i think there is an actual chiyuv for you to be rebuked. you are talking about gedolei oilam who knew kol hatorah koolah. and you know 4 blatt in six mesechtos.

Gavra-at work, please, also keep in mind that in earlier days it was not a shaila as the number of avreichim in EY was small, and even the frei Yidden did not mind it.

So you are claiming the Chazon Ish would not have asked for an exemption for Yeshivaleit if he knew how many there were now? That there should be a cap on the number of Kollel in EY, and the rest should be working and possibly joining the army?

(Are you sure that you are not MO? LOL)

in lakewood they ask you “are you willing to work”. Now if you ask me the average guy in BMG is NOT willing to work at all, so then most people are flat out lying when answering that question.

Sure they are! It just depends doing what, and how much time during the day, as well as how much they can make.

I bet if you would offer 1 hour a week (flex), 10K a week, sitting at a desk, they would take it.

The issue is keeping a ton of people in Kollel forever on the government money in the face of the open and bitter opposition of the taxpayers.

There is no opposition from the taxpayers. The taxpayers are represented by the legislature. The legislature wants to provide it.

Welcome to the democratic process.

mdd: It seems to me that popa is talking about in the U.S., not Israel.

In any event, since when does the bigoted reaction of Chiloni Jews determine if something is a chillul Hashem? It does not.

Acknowledged Pbear, but the yachid not from shevet Levi is also tied to Yoru mishpatecha lYaakov. The Kesef Mishne there agrues, but only to the point of insuring a continuity of qualifed leaders, something the Rambam would likely not argue with. Supporting the best and the brightest is sustainable, with TIDE for the rest of us. What percentage of shotgun approach kollel produces the really bright lights, dayanim, RYs, and broad shouldered morei horo’a?

We can assume that the Chazon Ish would have asked for an exemption no matter the numbers. The question is whether the medine would have agreed and whether agreeing would have even been beneficial to the Torah world.

The other question was whether the Chazon Ish would have wanted the present situation of koilel for all just to avoid the army. This we do not know. If not, then the Chazon Ish might have changed his request or agreed to a limit on the number of exemptions or their duration.

The whole system in EY is so corrupt that the only real Torah choice is “beshitas hakoifrim ein anu makirim.” However, if there were no charedi representatives in Knesset, the medine would have no Jewish identity and charedim would have no services. A separate charedi and dati-leumi state may just happen at the rate things are going, especially in 2 generations when the problem of non-Jewish and non-Arab “Israelis” becomes a major one.