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What are you doing to ensure that we live a more Torahdik lifestyle. How are you encouraging yourself (and perhaps others) of steering away from from worthless fashion ‘must haves’ and ensuring that you are a trend setter in Avodas Hashem?
The purpose of this thread is hopefully to encourage us to think again about whether we define ourselves by our material posessions or by our ruchniyusdik achievements and aspirations.
how bout judging ourselves by both ruchniyus & gashmiyus? one reflects the other
Listen to shiurim on self-improvement and try to implement the suggestions…
The Goldbergs have a hard time keeping up with me.
With your what? Materialism? Dveykus?
BS”D
In my case, as soon as I could I left the US where standards in my particular community were sinking and moved to a smallish kiruv community where people are growing instead of falling.
I can’t stay here “full time” for personal reasons and lack of basic infrastructure so I plan to establish residence in a smaller community in E”Y where I also know that I have to be an example, while continuing to maintain a business and personal presence here.
I am not knocking people who stay in large communities like Brooklyn or Monsey, especially because unlike most of you I have no frum family keeping me anywhere, but at least for me being in a place where dressing as I do means that I really stand out and therefore have to strive to be the same inside as outside and where the nearest milchig kosher pizza is a plane ride to E”Y (or perhaps Vienna) away is a great way of making sure I am “a trend setter in avoidas Hashem”.
i dunno if this belongs in random questions, but what did the Goldbergs ever do to deserve this?
Dveykus
With his sarcasim
syrian- you refering to azi’s sarcasm? but he hardly ever posts….
Arievem: yes I am. I didn’t mean it literarly……..
At a recent Bar Mitzvah, it was kept very simple. No flowers and no centerpieces. No desert table. The Men and boys danced and it was very leibidig(lively). Wish everyone could go that simple. Who are people trying to impress having fancy parties?? When I hear of the thousands spent on flowers which will be thrown in the trash tomorrow, it makes me sad. Just because Hashem gave some people more money does not mean they have to throw it out like that. Even more so if they don’t have the money to spend.
Mazal: that’s a VERY touchy subject lol
BS”D
Speaking of following the Goldberg’s and them following azi, there is one Goldbergs I wish would have followed me out here – Goldbergs 24 hour grocery on 18th Avenue!
azl – if you are following them in Dveykus, you’re both way, way behind the times. The rest of us are into Shwekey, Yeedle, Yisroel Werdyger, YBC and of course Lipa!
mazal77 … i don’t understand. Does that mean that if you have the ability to make a fancier, more elegant simcha, you shouldn’t because someone else is so insecure that they feel the need to be just like you?
Why is that the G’vir’s issue? Should they also share their wealth
Who are these goldbergs you’re talking about?!
what did the Goldbergs ever do to deserve this?
The Goldberg’s were in cahoots with the Joneses.
10 20 30 40 etc… That’s not the point.Do you agree that it’s wrong to make your simcha luxurious when that takes away the focus of the simcha! When you praise hashem for the goods in your life is it by showing off all your taavos?! Who says it has to do with anybody’s insecurities? When you do something wrong and it affects other ppl to follow you are doing a double wrongdoing!
RY hits the nail on the head again.
Don’t forget squeak all the RY’S signed on the takanos n against luxurious simchas.
RoshYeshiva,
Not necessarily. When it comes to it, and whether you like it or not, physical beauty (not taken to the point of excess, itself a contentious point) does elevate and create a nicer atmosphere
I don’t think there is any yid that is one dimensional, and would define themselves solely by their material possessions. When it comes down to the emes of who we are we define ourselves by our middos, how we affect others in a positive way, and what we contribute to our families and communities. Whether it is through chessed or harbotzas Torah, the intellectually honest person has some way contributed.
That being said, I think one of the ways that will inspire us all to be a trendsetter in the Avodas Hashem department is to work on ayin tova, farginning, and truly being b’simcha with what we and others have. It’s contagious and causes people to appreciate everything Hashem has given them. And it will in turn cause Hashem to have an ayin tova towards klal yisroel.
I was referring to this line that you wrote, which was absent from the formal document you call the takanos (I think that they were only proposed as “suggestions” in the end).
When you praise Hashem for the goods in your life is it by showing off all your taavos?!
squeak: I called it takanos cuz thats the name satmar gave it.Bh they caused a big change by the chasideshe world.And i’m glad you liked my line. tentwentyforty…thats exactly the problem!! I like decorating my house but at my simcha’s i don’t find it necessary! A simcha where one needs all the extra’s is usually missing something concrete beneath the surface.a simcha of true torah jews will always look simple on the material side and luxurious when in comes to inner joy!
I dunno about you but all the Goldbergs I know I would want to keep up with cuz they are beautiful Torahdik ppl with the right hashkafos… pick on the Jones and the smiths… and leave the heilege families at peace.
How to not keep up with the jones… pashut- realize what is important in life and that life will go on contrary to common belief even if you dont have the same ritzy show as your neighbor. deal with it and be proud of it!
The Goldbergs are trying to keep up with the Cohens’.
The answer? Learn MUSSAR!
The Satmar takanos are different from the generic takanos that were issued about 7-8 years ago. Different in scope and different in audience. I agree with you that they are doing a world of good (because they are enforced across the board).
about mazal’s point, there is no definite limit on luxuries for simchas. Everyone is different and has different needs. However, when it is taken to the point of extremes, I sometimes think of those people who don’t know where their next penny is coming from and can’t help but feel that all that extra money they are spending on all the silly extras like ice sculptures and waterfalls and who-knows-what can go to families who would gain some menuchas hanefesh! (I am not judging people because everyone thinks that when they are rich, they will do it right but obviously there is a big nisayon of being rich, we just don’t get it until we are there.)
102030… Who said anything about insecurities?? I am not wealthy. If I made a simcha , I couldn’t care less about what other people thought if I kept it simple. I am talking about the waste I see, especially in regards to the flowers. The wealthy have a very big responsibly on their shoulders as far as how they spend their money. Hashem made them the keepers of the wealth to give out the poor people. Do people actually need to have luxury cars and furs?? Don’t you think Hashem will ask why did you buy a Lexus, when you can get a Toyota?? That money you blew for the Lexus was meant for so and so. How did those items serve in your Avodas Hashem?? Trust me, I am not jealous of the wealthy. I am quite content with what Hashem gave me. We are told that we are in Galus and we should hide our wealth, because the Goyim get envious of us. Those who are wealthy among us should not advertise their wealth.
back when this topic started, i had posted something short sweet n to the point- i’m not sure if it got lost or was deleted so i’ll try again
We (should) judge ourselves by both gashmius & ruchnius. One reflects the other
once again i endorse the “middle of the road” policy
mazal I totally agree with you.A wealthy person who thinks he owns his money and can do whatever he wants with it should prepare an answer for the world to come.
You want to know how to protect urself, be weary of ur neighbors. There are som areas more prone to materialism, where u live and who ur friends are have a big effect on ur attitudes and wants.
I have a big problem with materialism. Its a struggle for me. I don’t need nice clothing or shoes or fancy cars, but I really love jewelry and nice furniture! Luckily (or unluckily), I don’t have the funds to be able to afford what I want. I am the kind of person that would rather go without, than get a temporary or not so nice solution. So, my living room doesnt have a couch.
I really want to redo my kitchen, which was last done in the 1950s. Its kind of dangerous (the cabinets are falling apart) so my son is not allowed in. I don’t want to do a lower end version for $25-30,000 because I will have to redo it in 10 years. I’m waiting until I can afford to spend $50,000 and make a good, kosher kitchen. I’m really plotzing for dishwashers.
I try to work on this and its very hard. But, at least my drive for gashmius is tapered by my “cheap” gene, so ultimately it balances out.
SJSinNYC:
I (somewhat recently) redid my kitchen for about 10K. Granted its somewhat small (and all that used to be there was a sink & some cabinets) and I kept the stove & fridge, but it is doable (new cabinets, countertops, oven, sinks & DISHWASHER).
A couch is 399 at Bobs, Jennifer or Ikea.
I guess part of not being materialistic is knowing where to get stuff on the cheap.
GAW, there is a lot of demo that needs to be done in the kitchen – there is an odd wall that really needs to come down to make it functional. The labor/permits cost is about $25k WITHOUT materials.
I know where to get cheaper couches – I’ve looked at them. I’ve sat on them. But ultimately, they are not as comfortable and don’t look as nice. I always shop for the best deals around, but I also don’t like to compromise.
I love home improvement! Why not get a bunch of kids from a local yeshiva to do the demo for you and then buy your husband a table saw and a drill. You’ll be kitchenless for 6 months but it will be cheap (plus it makes a man feel like a man to see his wife work in a kitchen he built – what? you didn’t know I was a macho, macho, man?)
8^D
Squeak, but take out would cost a TON of money for 6 months. Plus, I have a baby – he needs to eat real, nutritious food 🙂
squeak- i’m gonna have to sue you for neck stress. I had to turn my whole head sideways to view ur signature properly. The other option would be to take the screen and turn it upside down- then my boss would sue you and you don’t want THAT- believe me
squeak:
SJS said she needs permits.
areivim, it’s not my fault because you had an alternative. I would argue this in front of any judge.
Do you have Windows XP? If so, then push the following keys at once:
CTRL + Alt + right arrow.
The defense rests.
P.S. I wouldn’t sue myself! (that goes back to your first post ever, hope you get it)
and before you ask me how to fix it, let me say this:
“Heh heh heh. Your marvelous computer machine, will NEVER work again. Leh heh heh heh.”
squeak- i’m literally LOLing right now- hahahahahahaha
but I’m not as dumb as i sound- here i am with a straight screen as good as ever! niyehehehe
hey squeak- you must work at that computer programming place around the corner from me
squeak,
oh man! You left out this disclaimer in your first post and now my computer is sideways! Please tell me how to fix or you’ll be facing another neck related lawsuit.
charlie, I would help you, but I can’t type sideways.
areivim, is there a psychologist working at the computer programming place around the corner from you? That’s weird. What do they need one for (besides the obvious)?
squeak- all night i puzzled over “P.S. I wouldn’t sue myself! (that goes back to your first post ever, hope you get it)”
please enlighten me b4 I plotz
areivim,
come on!! don’t you remember when squeak warned you about a negative performance review if you spend too much time on YWN.
ames,
glad to be of service.
squeak,
you gotta fix my computer screen. My Dr. Pepper keeps spilling on the luncheon thread because my cup is sideways.
squeak, another tidbit you’ve recently added is that you have a train conductor you can actually talk to.
yup. that’s a dead giveaway, isn’t it
I think Heimishe Yid has a very good point about neighbors effecting our wants, however its not always so easy to control.
We once had a story where there was a chalav yisroel ice cream truck coming down the block every day. And every day kids would run to their parents for money to wait on line and get an ice cream, parents felt bad since the weather was hot and e/o was going. Until one mother got really annoyed and made a huge fuss telling the ice cream truck driver that he can no longer come down the block every day, maybe once a week.
Major debates broke out…R we responsible to remove our children from temptations- or should they be taught just bec she gets an ice cream every day, it doesnt mean that i need to get one too!
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