Fires on Lag Baomer

Rebbe Alter tells us that aish is fire and fire is hot and we should keep away so that it does not jump on our bed and clothes so we don’t get burned.

So don’t jump on the bed on Lag B’omer and you’ll be fine!

Why do we light bonfires on Lag B’Omer? because of the fire of Torah, silly! Being that this is Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai’s yartzeit and he was the person whose entire being revolved around the Torah and the Zohar, we commemorate the day with a bonfire. At least, that’s how it was explained to me.

Fire is symbolic of intensity, not good or evil.

It’s a serious Halachic issue that many Poskim in the 18th century were against but has somehow seemed to become standard practice.

Sam:

I seem to recall a different “Yom Tov”, where most poskim were against, but have now…

And there were major poskim of earlier times that condoned it. And the ones in attendance (in this case) are not local butchers… they have Shas and Poskim at their fingertips. They pretty much know right from wrong..

You’d think people would commemorate his yahrzeit with learning and revolving their lives around the Torah, rather than jumping around a meaningless fire, bittul z’man, and causing massive chillul Shabbat.

Wow. Had a bad day, did you? I hope you feel better now that it’s morning.

LF: I said it’s become standard practice. We just don’t really understand why. If you’ll agree to that about some other holidays then Shalom Al Yisrael. 🙂

Wow. Had a bad day, did you? I hope you feel better now that it’s morning.

No, actually my day has gone quite well, B”H.

And wouldn’t you think we would celebrate our freedom and initiation as Bnei Yisroel by learning instead of chewing Matza, Maror, and cups of wine? And Purim? Oy. Why don’t we just learn through the day? Why do we even have a Shabbos Seuda when could have had a ‘meaningful fast’ instead while learning profound thoughts and insights?

I guess you don’t realize that your examples are actual mitzvot, you know, things we are commanded to do. There is no mitzva in dancing around a fire; if there is, tell me the bracha that’s said.

The Rashbi’s teachings on the Zohar illuminated the world

By that token, the Torah illuminated the world. Let’s make a bonfire on Shavuous.

The Wolf

Right, and some of those things were commanded by the Rabanan. Why didn’t they say to learn instead? And the Torah does tell us what Matzah and Maror is about, if my Haggadah is not lying to me. It is not a Chok, you know. Do you make a Bracha when you dance at a wedding?

I personally do not have a minhag to light bonfires on Lag Baomer, but I find the derision of those who make bonfires rather disturbing. I think the question of whether to postpone the bonfires until Sunday afternoon to make things easier on the police and for people trying to attend is valid, but to lambaste the bonfires entirely as bittul zman and “meaningless” is an insult to large segments of Jewry.

I also don’t fully understand the accusation that motzei Shabbos bonfires cause chillul Shabbos. Are the bonfire organizers really telling Jewish police officers, “please be there by 3pm on Saturday afternoon so we can get started promptly at 9?” If the police were interested in keeping Shabbos, why can’t they make most of the preparations like barricades before Shabbos, go home and observe Shabbos, make havdalah, jump into their uniforms and ride on over to man the ship? If cv”s preparations were done on Shabbos, then it’s the police who chose to be mechallel Shabbos.

Going one step further, what’s to stop the police from starting their preparations on Shabbos even if the bonfires were held Sunday aftrernoon? Should all motzei Shabbos activities that might necessitate crowd control be postponed until Tuesday?

I think he is just trying pinpoint what the idea really is. If someone were to seriously ask you your question of every Shabbos you know that you would be able to answer him.

The problem with bonfire on Motzei Shabbos is you have to prepare in advance. In the US you need time to get the police gates and fire trucks ready and have permits all set up. You also need to scour the area for flammable items (In case a piece of fire breaks off) you

In Israel they have to have the Police, Army and Fire Department set up the area. Comb the area for terrorists, Make sure there arent any flammable items nearby etc

Large crowds especially with fire just dont happen safely, you need to prepare. You need time to also get the fire extenguishers around etc.

Yes, if it was Sunday afternoon they could still work on Shabbos, but at least there is time to prepare. If the Bonfire is 1 hour after shabbos you just dont have the time to prepare safely

Sam2,

For example, firefighters and EMT workers in Israel had to be organized and ready to go at a moment’s notice, which meant preparing a few hours before Shabbos ended. That couldn’t have been done on Friday.

That makes sense, thank you.

“You’d think people would commemorate his yahrzeit with learning and revolving their lives around the Torah”

I did just that! I learned sugyot from two different tractates of Bavli, two different tractates of Yerushalmi, and also a perek of Navi.

Sam, it was only celebrated in Eretz Yisroel. I didn’t actually give that reason, I just clarified it. The fire was never such an Ikkar. It was done to enhance the Simcha. But when a Minhag spreads all around we apply the concept of Bnei Neviim and try to find depth.

It seems though, that there was such a thing in earlier times. I think the Maharil’s Talmid describes how they spent Lag Ba’omer with a parade and jumping through fire loops.

The Rav Mibartenura records in his letter how they celebrated Lag Baomer in Meron. He was around 1500.

The Chasam Sofer having heard of people tossing clothing into the fire condemed it as Bal Tash’chis. Those Poskim who lived in Eretz Yisroel and who witnessed the Simcha had a very different look at it, and responded to that Teshuva.

The Arizal took part in the celebrations, as told by Reb Chaim Vittal. He even revealed to a Talmid that this Talmid will be punished for ruining the Simcha by saying Nachem.

The day was always considered special. What is new is the association with Rebbi Shimon and the degree to which it is celebrated. The Maharal in Nesiv Hatorah writes about the significance of the 18th of Iyar.

Why would bonfires on Lag Baomer have anything to do with Shavuos? Is there fundamentally something wrong with celebrating something differently on different days? On Friday night, we say “zecher litziyas Mitzrayim” as part of kiddush, so by that token, should we eat matzah and maror every Shabbos?

Your analogy is not valid.

We were commanded by God to eat matzah and marror on Pesach, while we were not commanded to do so on Shabbos.

OTOH, building bonfires is not a command from God, but something that we, ourselves originated. As such, if we can do so for Lag B’Omer, I don’t see a reason why we can’t do so for Shavuous as well.

The Wolf

Just thinking out loud: perhaps the minhag is related to gemorah which describes how right after RSBY left the cave where he had been hiding and learning with his sont he was on such a high madreiga that any gashmios that he looked at was burned.

Light a fire at home before Shavuous. If you have a fireplace.

Just thinking out loud: perhaps the minhag is related to gemorah which describes how right after RSBY left the cave where he had been hiding and learning with his sont he was on such a high madreiga that any gashmios that he looked at was burned.

In other words, we light a bonfire to celebrate people who died working and supporting their families??

The Wolf

WolfishMusings,

Where on earth did you get the idea that my goal is to stop any (let alone all) minhagim?

I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions. I didn’t think that you wanted necessarily to stop this (or any) minhag, but it did seem to me that you were subtly calling its legitimacy into question.

My point was that if the sole reason to light a bonfire on L”B is becuase of the light that was revealed, then surely Shavuous is a better candidate.

I guess what I don’t understand about your point is: why can’t the bonfires be about the revealed light of Torah despite the fact that we don’t light bonfires on Shavuos? What is the issue with celebrating something in a different manner on a different day?

silly response. Those are your words.

I didn’t really think that was your intention. But it could have been read into your words.

I was suggesting that we celebrate the fact that a person could reach such a high madraiga. Why don’t you complain to RSBY for killing poor innocents? ? Maybe he was chaiyiv misa for what he did? And, how do you know these were people working to support their families? perhaps they just wanted some extra cash ? We obviously do not know the exact meaning of this maasa ( although, of course he was told to stop or there would be no world left). But in my humble opinion it is brought down as a shvach of RSBY.

I humbly disagree. I think the story is both to the merit and detriment of RSBY.

To the merit, he got to spend those years learning with no interruptions. He was miraculously saved and supported for those years. All of those speak to the exceptional merit of RSBY.

However, it’s also true that during those years, he lost sense of the common man. The fact that he saw those who were hard at work supporting their families and putting bread on the table as deserving of death clearly shows that he lost sight of the plight of the common person who could not simply learn full-time and ignore their need for parnassah. He had to be ordered to return to the cave for another year until he was able to again comprehend the common man.

The Wolf

In any event , I don’t think its fair to say RSBY “forgot” about the common man ; he transcended mankind.

Fair enough — we can quibble about the exact verb to use — but the bottom line is still that RSBY could no longer function in the “real world” with the “common man.”

The Wolf