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I’m so weak from fasting 12 hours already what should I do?
This fast (17 of Tammuz) is a very lenient one. Many people who get headaches etc. either fast until Chatzos (midday,)or don’t fast at all.
Call your Rav.
You’ve made it this far, lie down and rest. If you can’t find someone who can tell you to break the fast early, just rest until it’s over, not long now.
Nechomah: I know you’re in Israel, but in New York there’s still 5 hours left (and more the farther south and west you go from there).
Yes Sam, I am in EY, and I posted well after our fast was done here. But OP said that s/he had been fasting for 12 hours. How many more hours is the fast than 12 hours? I know NY is farther to the north, meaning a later sunset/longer day. Is it longer than 15 hours? Here a 14 hour long is about the longest, give or take 15 minutes. I just guestimating right now since I don’t know when alos was this morning, and we hold the shortest time for waiting until tzeis hakochavim on the “easier” fasts. I could have been totally off base and if I was I apologize to OP. I did mention that if OP could not find someone that should tell him/her to break the fast early, only then should s/he just rest. Again, no judgements/offense intended.
It’s about 17 hours long in NYC. I always get up and have something to eat before a daytime fast, but this one starts so early (4:13 AM this year) that a lot of people don’t. In that case, it’s over 20 hours.
Nechomah: New York is give or take a 17-hour fast (closer to 18 if you trusted the website that likes to invent its new Halachos) and there were at least 6 hours left when this post went up.
Being here in the coffee room helps, by the way.
Nechoma assuming a lateish 11:00 bedtime the fast is >22 hours
By the time you finish this conversation, the fast might be over already. So keep posting. Time flies when ur having fun. Oh wait, we’re not supposed to have fun today. 🙂
Playtime, what do you mean it is a lenient one? Mechaber clearly states that we should fast this fast unless one is a choileh. The point of fasting is to feel discomfort and to contemplate the reason why we are fasting to begin with. Todays day and age everyone looks for heteirim. No one said it was geshmak to fast. The least we can do for the churban is to fast. Anyone that complains that they have a headache or feel weak, get over it. Yidden in Auschwitz felt that way for 4 years. You can manage a day, nothing will happen to you
Yes, one should fast is he/she is able, but it is considered a “minor” fast day and therefore heterim are available for those who need them. My mother is not elderly and does not have an illness, so she has to fast on Tisha B’Av and Yom Kippur, but after nearly fainting on Sheva Asar B’Tammuz a few years ago she does not fast on any of the four minor fast days anymore. I also have difficulty fasting, but not to the extent that I can justify not fasting. I just make sure to get plenty of rest and not to go out in the heat.
Git Meshige: Choleh here means even a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah, which the Rama defines as having to lie down. It is a very Meikel fast for those who need it to be, and your emotional argument doesn’t change the Halachah.
Sam2, if thats the case, noone would fast. Everyone feels some discomfort one way or another, and so by definition most people are a choileh. How could it be a meikel fast for those who need it to be. It is either meikel for everyone or not. Bottom line, stop looking for heteirm and do what halacha says. Ofcoarse for the elderly and sick, there is no question, but for the initial poster who complains of a headache, get over it.
Onoffonofff: Feeling better yet? It’s almost over. And if you’re on the east coast- which I’m assuming you are, then consider yourself lucky, we have an hour more than you.
“How could it be a meikel fast for those who need it to be. It is either meikel for everyone or not.”
The halacha says that everyone should fast, and for those who just feel the ordinary hunger, fatigue, and discomfort of a fast that is the case. However, you do not have to be elderly or terminally ill or have some kind of disorder to qualify for the heter. There is a middle case of people who do not fast well and experience extreme symptoms who are not, however, endangering their lives by fasting and can therefore be exempt.
It should go without saying, but I’ll say it anyway– consult your LOR.
Git: A lot of people don’t fast for a lot of reasons. But that’s separate. The Halachah is that someone who has to lie down because of the fast can eat. That is the Halachah.
Sam, the Halacha is that Sefardim may eat rice on Pesach, is that the Halacha for everyone?
Git: I don’t understand what you’re trying to do. Talk within Halachah. The Ashkenazic Minhag, as codified in Halachah, is to not have rice on Pesach. There are Halachos about when you’re allowed to eat on one of these fast days. Look them up. Actually, look up whether or not you have to fast these at all first. You might be surprised when you start learning.
Git Meshige,
the Halacha is that Sefardim may eat rice on Pesach, is that the Halacha for everyone?
I am not sure what you are trying to convey with this statement. Are you arguing that some hold a choleh sh’ein bo sakana is required to fast on 17 Tammuz? Is there a source for that?
My guess is that your argument is not over the halacha, but an assertion that some place themselves into the category of a choleh sh’ein bo sakana to get out of fasting when they really aren’t that sick. Is this your argument?
Just happened to look at a website of Chabad in Fairbanks Alaska and candlelighting this week is 12:17am. How do you suppose Tisha B’Av goes up north! By the time they make havdalah I would be in lala land
Sam, I have looked up the Halacha, and nowhere does it say, if one needs to lie down he may break his fast. Actually it says Asur lifroitz geder. Now, it does say if one is sick, one may break the fast. Please back up your statement with a mareh mokom since you seem to be a tremendous yodeaya sefer. In any event, there are different halachos by different poskim and the most common practice is to fast unless one is sick. Feeling a little discomfort does not label a person sick. The whole point of fasting is to feel discomfort
Git: The Rama in Hilchos Shabbos defines a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah as someone who is ill enough that they cannot continue daily activity and have to lie down. I see no reason why a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah would be defined differently here.
My best understanding is that these 4 fasts are positive Rabbinic commandments. Positive commandments are governed by “Deracheha darchei noam” (Proverbs 3:17) and “Haemet V’hashalom ehavu” (pleasant ways and ways of truth and peace) as brought down in Tractate Succos (daf 32a about the lulav and 32b about the hadas). Because of this, certain types of palm branches that can scratch the skin are invalid for the Lulav. While fasts are intrinsically a day long denial of pleasure, when they can damage the body (like the prickly Lulav) there is no longer the Mitzvah to fast. We certainly have no obligation to experience Auschwitz even for a few hours.
Most interesting is that “Haemet V’hashalom ehavu” are the last words of the verse that we learn about these 4 fasts (Zechariah 8:19).
Ask your local Rabbi for specific details when the exemption applies.
“these 4 fasts are positive Rabbinic commandments”
First Mishneh Berurah of Orach Chaim 549 near end:
Mem Eyin – Mitzvah Aseh from the words of the prophets
Josh: They are not an Asei D’rabannan. They are a R’shus that may or may not have the status of a Minhag that we’ve accepted nowadays. The Poskim discuss this at length.
Sam, again I ask, a mareh mokom. Not your own conjured up psak. A source where it says that one may break his fast if he needs to lie down.
I have a sugar problem, so if I would feel ill on a minor fast, I would break it on a small amount of food and then continue fasting. Somehow, I have B”H never had any problem fasting on Yom Kippur or Tisha B’Av (so far, bli ayin hara). But for some reason, the minor fasts are a challenge, though most often, I manage to get through the entire day without breaking it.
Git: I don’t understand what you’re looking for here. You yourself quoted the Mechaber that a Choleh doesn’t have to fast. Ad’raba, it’s Alecha L’havi Ra’aya that a Choleh should be defined differently here than anywhere else. Regardless, I’ll try and find you a Mareh Makom when I have a chance, though your Mechaber is a pretty good one anyway.
but this one starts so early (4:13 AM this year)
FYI the Tzom this commenced at 3.35AM.
Furthermore, the attitude taken to getting out of these fasts are being used far too prevalently and these Ta’aniyos are not being taken anywhere near seriously enough.
147: It only started at 3:35 in NY according to degrees. 72 minutes (which is what everyone held almost everywhere until a few years ago) was 4:13. I don’t understand, however, why no one seems to hold like the most Pashtus Shittah, which is 72 Z’maniyos minutes before sunrise.
In the American “mitzvah” of football, the true hero is one who gets injured playing the game.
We do not consider those who damage their bodies in keeping a fast as heroes.
How severe is the headache?
I will argue that if it is severe enough that a doctor (you trust) would write you an Rx, that you should break the fast.
Medicines are classified Rx because they can damage the body and should only be used if the risks of not taking it outweigh the risks of taking it.
There will be cases where the doctor would only advise over the counter medications, or even no medications, that breaking the fast would be advised.
honey and water alternately seven times; lots of grapes; oatmeal; ANYONE ELSE HAVE REMEDIES TO MAKE TISHA B’AV AN EASIER FAST IF CHAS V’SHOLOM MOSHIACH DOES NOT COME BY THEN? BESIDES GETTING DISTRACTED WITH THE COMPUTER ETC.
Sam, you are obviously not aware of the flow of the conversation from the very begining. Playtime, suggested that it is a lenient fast and that anyone with a headache does not need to fast. I countered by saying that the mechaber clearly states one needs to fast and asur lifrotz geder and that only a choleh need not fast. You then interjected by saying that the definition of a choleh is one that needs to lie down. With your vast knowledge of different shitois, you quoted the Rimah that one is considered a choileh if they need to lie down. I then asked you for the mareh mokom and you quote a vague shitoh in hilchos shabbos that has no connection to fasting and yet you still fail to provide a mareh mokom to your claim. Instead of misleading anyone with your incorrect assumptions, next time before you make a claim, have a valid source for it. Its that simple
I still remember the first (and, so far, only) time I had to break a fast.
It was about five years ago on Asara B’Teves. I went to work, but was feeling miserable, so I left early and went home. I got home, found that I had 101 fever and, at the urging of my wife, had some hot tea and toast at about 1:00 (with about another four hours left to the fast).
Yes, you may think of me what you will for being so quick to break the fast. I don’t care.
The Wolf
Git: Look at 328:17 for the definition of a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah (it was a Mechaber, not the Rama; the Rama added that Choleh B’chol Gufo is the same as having to lie down). The M”B 550:4 says that a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah doesn’t have to fast. Why would the definition of a Choleh She’ein Bo Sakanah be any different? If anything, it should be more Chamur by R’fuah on Shabbos.
Anyway, this is all L’fi the P’sak of the Mechaber (which the vast majority are still Noheg like). However, there is a not-uncommon custom to be even more Meikel on these 3 fasts because the Gemara calls them a R’shus. That is why some communities have no women fast these and I think the Minhag in Brisk is that no one fasts-they hold that it’s better to learn and have normal Seder than to fast and hurt the learning.
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