Extraterrestrials in judaism

All the sifrei kabballah that talk about olamos are talking about spiritual worlds not physical ones. That is clear from how they describe some of these worlds.

If you look in Rashi on that posuk in shoftim it will be clear that the “inhabitants” are those that are in the vicinity of the star.

A chariot of fire, is a chariot of fire. You need to bring some type of proof that the words mean something they doesn’t say.

The entire world was created for the sake of klal Yisroel and the Torah. We are here and the Torah is with us. Without a mekor that specifically speaks about a physical world populated with physical beings there is no reason to assume that one exists.

Many comments in the CR seem to originate from ETs.

sorry – that should have read ‘THERE being only one Torah’

Finally an interesting topic!!! I heard a great dvar torah from a rebbi of mine who has since passed away. Its a well known DT. I had asked him about stuff like this and fossil records and the like. And he said the following: The Torahs first letter is a Bet. It is a letter that is blocked off from all side save for the next letter and word and paragraph and so on. It need not concern us what hashem did, or might have done without us or before us. We need to follow the open direction of the letter Bet. Even if there are non humans in the world or there were dinosaurs before us. It doesn’t change the fact that we now, are charged with upholding the Torah and its commandments. As a side note for all you sci-fi fanatics, years ago I read some sci fi book where the aliens that were met, were Jewish. The pic on the cover had a green (of course) alien wearing a talit. And it was written by a serious sci-fi author.

(no im not a scifi nerd by the way).

Your loss. 🙂

The Wolf

hope you all realize the two main stars of star trek are Jewish

Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes are Jewish? 🙂

The Wolf

(Reminds me of an old Billy Crystal joke. He knew he was getting old when his daughter came to him one day and asked “Is it true Paul McCartney was in another group before Wings?”)

Aren’t Orthodox Jews and Ferengi two of a kind?

As you are, obviously, aware, I pointed out commonalities between Orthodox Jews and the Ferengi. But because there are commonalities does not mean that they are, in fact, one and the same.

Of course, I also shouldn’t need to remind you that Star Trek is fiction.

The Wolf

I posted earlier (for some reason it wasn’t allowed by the Mods) that a Rishon, Rabenu Kraskas in Sefer Or Hashem discusses life on other planets and as I recall says it is possible.

However, I have heard it said that it is impossible that intelligent beings capable of moral judgement inhabit other planets as this would cause difficulty with the principle of there being only 1 Torah.

Wolf, I would hazard a guess as follows: The Torah is the moral code of all society, the code that defines what is good and what is bad. Even for non-Jews, it defines what is good and bad. All moral judgements point one way or the other ONLY because the Torah says so.

Therefore, if you have a society that does not have any connection with the Torah as they are on another planet, then for them by definition the concepts of good and bad and moral judgements cannot exist. This is as opposed to all humankind on Earth for whom the Torah’s giving through Moshe at Sinai (on Earth) constituted the message from G-d of a definitive moral code – Jew (613 mitzvos) and non-Jew (7 mitzvos) each on their level.

To pre-empt an obvious question on what I have just written; surely there are some commandments in the Torah that are ‘Mitzvos Sichliyos’ i.e. commandments that could be arrived at by simply using an innate sense of right and wrong e.g. the prohibition of murder? The answer I think I once heard to this is that in truth even these type of commandments are in essence rooted in the Torah’s definitive moral code. Thinking that we would arrive at the commandment without the Torah’s existence is an illusion. (See Rabbi Keleman’s book Permission to Believe for more on this last point.)

the main stars of the original star trek and most of the movies,

william shatner and leonard nimoy

Gavra – no contradiction. The moral code to which you refer as being ‘overidden’ by the Torah can and does exist naturally in society but the point is that they cannot be described truly as ‘good’ or ‘bad’ as these terms have NO TRUE MEANING AT ALL unless there is a G-d given Law – the Torah – that provides the ultimate definition of right and wrong.

Without the Torah Chas V’Shalom, Human Society and its interactions, a moral code with its laws and behaviour is coldly reduced to the following:

1)A bunch of atoms grouped together in a certain way (the Human Form)

2)These atom bunches are capable of interacting within themselves in a particular way (Thought and Choice).

3)This often results in a further External interaction with other similar groups of atoms in various ways (e.g. providing them with “food” which prolongs the time they exhibit the property known as “Life” or, the opposite; e.g. putting a sharp knife in them thereby removing from them the property known as “Life”).

4)Many of these bunches of atoms have collectively over the years internally interacted resulting in something known as a “Decision” that some External interactions shall be named as ‘good’ and some ‘bad’ in accordance with the ‘Feeling’ (another property exhibited by these atoms) that these external interactions foster.

the “Chesed L’Avraham” (the grandfather of the Chida) speaks about what the Zohar discusses about there being seven hidden lands, with various beings living in each land. The Zohar speaks of the inhabitants of one of the lands called “Neshaya”, where the people are shorter than our people. The Chesed L’Avraham says that the world is essentially hollow, with various layers, like the layers of an onion, and he describes the inhabitants of “Neshaya” as having large heads, small bodies, no ears or noses, only holes, and a small slit for a mouth, and large black eyes. He says that these people do take people sometimes briefly for their needs. Sounds like “grey aliens”. Probably what people think are the aliens from other planets are actually the people from Neshaya under the earth. It is still possible though that there is life on other planets, but those who abduct people are probably closer to us than other planets.

Kolemes, the Ramak quotes that Zohar Hakadosh and refers to the fact that even Tanaim had a hard time believing it, until they witnessed it. He says that we can’t force people to believe these things, but you shouldn’t mock it. It’s a better idea not to bring things up that cause mockery of the Torah and its sages.

What???^ why have we never seen these beings then?

Talmud: If I remember correctly, Daf Nun or Nun Aleph, when it talks about different planets. Og, and he writes there are beings that have no nose, just two holes in their face….reminded me of Martians!!!!

Looks like we have genuine UFOs now.
Anyone interested in this topic?