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I DONT GET IT!so i understand that girls want to support their husbands learning so while the boys are staying holy and learning the girls are all getting influenced by their harmful college and work environments!!how does this make sense?
These days, ALL women work to be able to pay bills, and possibly save, whether their husbands learn or work. It’s not only women who are married to learners, who are working. And why are the offices where the Chassidish girls work (who dont go to college, and whose husbands are working) any better environment-wise? Work is work. There arent enough teaching jobs for everyone.
I assume you’re a girl
therefore i’ll give you an answer you would like.
girls are too holy to even be influenced by college
:p> mbachur <d:
Your question seems to assume that the reason boys need to learn is so that they will stay holy by not being exposed to the outside world.
The answer is that you are incorrect, and the reason boys need to learn is because torah has its own value; it is not just something to keep you busy while you are insulated from the world.
Litova, you bring up an interesting point
I heard R’ Matisyahu Solomon spoke recently against girls going to college.
dunno, I’d have loved to hear how bills would get paid. Interesting though, because 75% of Lakewood wives have some sort of a college degree these days.
The way I see it, with rare exceptions, b’derech hateva, ain somchin al hanes, its either winning the lottery, cleaning office buildings at night or similar, college, or dependence on every program out there, which there will be less and less of as time goes on.
i don’t know where you live, but in Brooklyn there are many kosher versions of college where exposure to anything is extremely minimal.
As far as college environments for women, there are convenient and reasonable options like Touro, if you want gender-separated classes in a Torah-observant environment.
For work purposes, this varies by the workplace. Generally, you do not want to be in a position where you need to become emotionally close to someone other than your spouse.
But many homes are 2-income households anyways, so it’s not like the woman would otherwise sit at home; they’re just making do with less (or being supported or some combination, thereof) while the husband learns.
My wife works, we have no choice…the cost of tuition alone is reason enough for us both to work. The add on the fact that we like to eat, lights, a roof over are head…there simply isn’t another option for us
LITOVA:
The reason boys don’t want to go to college is not only so they can “stay holy”, but also because they want to spend the time learning. This does not apply to girls, who have no chiyuv of talmud Torah.
Also, as has been pointed out there are many kosher options for college and work; all girls are not necessarily being “influenced by their harmful college and work environments” as you seem to believe.
There is no such thing as a kosher college. All the more worse for women.
We don’t know exactly what Rav Solomon, shlita said. Let’s please keep him out of the discussion.
” harmful college and work environments”
YU and Stern is not harmful at all…
Canine, thanks for the words in bold.
And yes, a second income is necessary but if the husband starts working sooner rather than later (wouldn’t it be interesting to see the learner/earner concept expanded….) there is less pressure on the wife and she may be able to work part time.
Mikehall, I’m not going to go there but I will say that they’re not so pashut for kids who haven’t been through the feeder school systems, who are being addressed here. And they’re pricey, too.
mikehall12382:
“YU and Stern is not harmful at all… “
Debatable… the crowd there is very modern, and some of them are completely not frum. Also, the halacha is not enforced there at all by the faculty. People are openly not shomer negiah, eat treif, and are mechalel shabbos. Definitely not the most kosher environment in my book.
canine, i would advise you to please listen to the interview of Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twerski. He clearly states that there is no reason in this day and age where College is so cleansed and separated that boys are being held back from being trained to being mepharnes their families. There are no apikores courses that need to be taken, there are no women on campus, etc.
“Debatable… the crowd there is very modern, and some of them are completely not frum. Also, the halacha is not enforced there at all by the faculty. People are openly not shomer negiah, eat treif, and are mechalel shabbos. Definitely not the most kosher environment in my book.”
maybe, but if that is a case it is a smll minority, not the majority
There are definitely kosher options-touro, raizel rite, sara shneirer, bulka, yavneh, online courses…i dont think its a stira for a girl to go to college to support her husband..at least it doesnt need to be..
However please explain what the Kesubah says. It is a contract from the husband to the wife. In it there is a vow that HE will support her. It is a promise and an obligation. So how does it make sense that at any cost a wife supports her husband. What does the husband do to show his hakoras hatov?
The kesubah does not say that a wife does not need to work.
As far as hakaras hatov, I would hope that husbands who are being supported by their wives do feel and show hakaras hatov.
mikehall12382:
“maybe, but if that is a case it is a smll minority, not the majority”
Perhaps… but a place with even a small minority who openly disregard and blatantly violate the halacha is far cry from “not harmful at all”.
aries2756: True, in the kesubah the husband guarantees the wife certain things; but if she’s OK being the one making sure she gets those things, what’s the problem?
The kesubah is a contract the husband gives the wife in which he promises to give her all those things and promises to take care of her. There is no contract where the wife promises the husband anything. Just think about that.
Why does everything have to boil down to contracts and rights?
If a couple decides that this is how they want to live, why should anybody criticize them? I don’t criticize how you live.
I see. So you think that they are brainwashed.
I don’t see how we can discuss this if you are coming from that position, so let’s forget it.
If the couple can do it without relying on programs and shtick, now or later, and it wont negatively affect Shalom Bayis (because both are low-maintenance), then its fine. Realistically, at some point, many get into trouble financially and have to beg and borrow from others.
once heard a good vort:
“katuv b’zayat APECHA lo b’zayat ISHTICHA”
aries:
“There is no contract where the wife promises the husband anything. Just think about that.”
Unless, of course, she agrees in advance to go to work. Which I would assume is normally the case.
PBA:
“If a couple decides that this is how they want to live, why should anybody criticize them?”
Well said, I couldn’t agree more.
aries:
“Because this is not an option or a choice, this concept is forced on kids and they are brainwashed to believe it is the “ONLY” true frum way to live.”
So then your issue is not with the actual woman working, it is this alleged brainwashing you believe is taking place.
Oh, and do you have the same issue with more modern girls being “forced” into thinking that they must work (so as to have a double income home), and being “brainwashed to believe it is the “ONLY” true way to live”?
bump
A good woman, an aishes chayil, is a shaliach for her husband to support her husband’s wife!
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