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>> “Frum Jews are not supposed to live like the Amish. Not having devices is living like Amish.”
> Fallacy of the converse.We all get caught up in a moment – and it is _very_ reasonable to be conservative when major changes happen. But look back 100-200 years – are there many technological/social changes that Jews are not using? We ride trains (Chofetz Chaim suggests including trains into our thanks to Hashem), read printed books (do you know what was mostly printed early on after the Bible? right, pornography); we use phones, read papers, drive cars, fly airplanes, etc, etc. OK, we watch TV less than an average goy. So, eventually we will learn how to use smartphones safely. Some might have already figured it out.
@Always_Ask_Questions
Yes thats my point. Internet is essential and a necessity today. Anyone who says its not is living in a bubble. Its so part and parcel of our life. So to then argue that its just a luxury and we don’t need to provide free free filters for a luxury is just so far from reality.I am not well versed in these fancy English phrases and philosophical debate kind of terms that you use.
Chaim, he assumed you could just look them up online.
Avram, thanks for teaching me these useful terms.
>> I am not well versed in these fancy English phrases and philosophical debate kind of terms that you use.
Menachem> Chaim, he assumed you could just look them up online.without internet?! catch-22 …
for full disclosure, I do have an encyclopedia and I fought a battle to make kids interested in using it. They are winning with the score 6:1 – shabbos is the only day they ever looked it up.
Always_Ask_Question,
“are there many technological/social changes that Jews are not using? We ride trains … read printed books … we use phones, read papers, drive cars, fly airplanes, etc, etc. OK, we watch TV less than an average goy.”
This is a bit of a conflation of issues. The problem is not with the technology itself, but with the content that this particular technology makes not just available, but almost unavoidable. That’s why it’s different from trains, cars and airplanes. Bad content can indeed be printed, so some books are assur – no chidush there. Televisions serve up lots of bad content, hence even your tepid acknowledgement that frum Jews “watch less”. Smartphones in some ways are worse than television.
“So, eventually we will learn how to use smartphones safely. Some might have already figured it out.”
Maybe they’re called TAG 😀
@Avram in MD
Again you make a very valid religous point. But at the end of the day, Internet is a necessity. A necessity meaning the entire wrold runs on it. And its a complete game changer in terms of quality of life. No mastter how dangerous internet is, its just so widely conveiennet and used in every asepct of your life that you can’t call it a luxury. its like elctricity and cars even though its may pose more danger. And one can’t say that its dangers require you abstain form using any internet device. That would be telling us to live like the Amish. Its not like the TV that doesn’t enhance your life. (I heard from hatzalah guy who was in a call and needed a patient to sign a permission slip for a life saving event on his i-pad. She said she was mekabel not to touch internet devices and can’t sign. It was a whole to do till the hatzlah memeber sorted out how to proceed. I mean thats just crazy but it illusrtaes the point)Well there’s hosts based blocking and there are multiple combinations of unified known files that can be used to block most of non-kosher videos, gambling, fake news, malware, socialmedia domains. Depending on the operating system.
This solution kinda blocks most of well known problems, but it would still not be as efficient as those fine tuned filtering VPNs, just that it is possible to get there to some degree without paying, but unless one is willing to learn about it and experiment on his own and stumbling on inapropriate website, manually improving their host based blocking file… It’s likely cheaper to pay for this service if as someone said it costs 12.99 per month.
However in a way this is contributing to a non-paid solution for the Original Poster problem. Thing with OpenSource projets is that they are mainly built by volunteers, and you cannot blame it for being not perfect.
this is one link on this hosts based blocking to get an idea.
No links
Edited
There’s always solution in contributing in developing this by yourself. This hosts based blocking if for example technically most simple solution in any sort of blocking of websites. You can learn about it and with a risk of being accidently exposed to non-kosher content, but then upgrading it to not happen again by adding up to the list:
Here’s a topic on GH about this Sorry no links
Edited
@v32itas
Our goal should be to spread free filters for all. If the open source or whatever does the job good. Of course TAG and some of the others will enagae ins care tactics. they will tell you, look at the boy in EY who cracked a filter code after the company dared them. We can’t use filters that boys can crack,. Therefore only filters that charge exorbitant prices are good. My answer to that is, if a boy or girl is holding by cracking and outmnarting filters , then they are smart enough to buy an unfiltered device at walmart for $20. or take something broken but still usable for free and download stuff at starbucks. It doesn’t take much to exploit the system. But thats not the intent of filters. The ppint of a filter is that it shouyldn’t be juts a clik where innocent people can slowly slip or quickly slip. It should be a lock. But there will always be accesible keys wone way or another and thats a separate issue. So yes free filters for all will accomplish more than having the best filter as so many more will have that lock at least.I looked up local tag materials, and they are not just offering filters. They also talk about multitasking and brain reactions to notifications, suggesting blocking out time periods to concentrate on important things. Do they write differently in other places ? It could be, of course.
Trying to block everything negative doesn’t work if your kids need that. Better to have a whitelist of Torah and educational sites, and block everything else.
Chaim87,
“Again you make a very valid religous point.”
Ok, and this is [checks notes] the Yeshiva World, a religious site.
“But at the end of the day, Internet is a necessity. A necessity meaning the entire wrold runs on it.”
You’re stuck in a repeat loop. Check your iterators.
“And its a complete game changer in terms of quality of life. No mastter how dangerous internet is, its just so widely conveiennet and used in every asepct of your life that you can’t call it a luxury.”
No matter how dangerous it is?? I’m not even sure how to respond to this. It’s alcoholic’s logic. A flying car would be a game changer and super convenient. Would you use one if they crashed all the time?
“its like elctricity and cars even though its may pose more danger.”
Use of electricity is quite safe if you keep your equipment in good working order and take simple precautions. You’d come along and say that since electricity is a necessity and everyone uses it, then it’s the responsibility of a tzedaka to pay for your safety precautions, because maybe you’re not convinced that you need to cover your wires with insulation. Cars are an interesting question, but travel by car is unquestionably safer than travel used to be in the alter heim (horses and wagons in storms, muddy roads, bandits, etc).
“And one can’t say that its dangers require you abstain form using any internet device.”
Am I advocating that you abstain?
“(I heard from hatzalah guy who was in a call and needed a patient to sign a permission slip for a life saving event on his i-pad. She said she was mekabel not to touch internet devices and can’t sign. It was a whole to do till the hatzlah memeber sorted out how to proceed. I mean thats just crazy but it illusrtaes the point)”
Yeah whatever. That’s someone erring on pikuach nefesh. Can happen with melacha on Shabbos as well – hatzola guys probably have stories about that too.
@ Avram in MD
1) The point is when something is so widespread and touches every faucet of one’s lives where almost no one in any civilized society doesn’t use it for every aspect, you can’t say it’s not a necessity. That’s just living in a bubble.
2) it’s not like a flying car which only has one feature. It’s so impactful and integral.
3) Re no matter how dangerous it is? Sure then build safe rails and protection. Just like a car has safety features. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a necessity just because it’s dangerous.
4) But what about religion ? This is a frum site. Again yes so build safe protection. But religion doesn’t make it not a necessity. It doesn’t change a metzius. (Unless your religion is a cult that brainwashes)
5) no matter how unsafe it is? Yes no matter how unsafe it’s so part of life now that you can’t live without it . It circles back to the same point so add safety features but that doesn’t make it less a necessity. (As a side note the way you make it sound like, anyone who touches it will die in a ruchnyus sense is nonsense. Sure it has risks . But most people are still responsible . It’s not level of some atom bomb. That doesn’t mean that some won’t slip but you make it sound like it will nuke everyone. Now to be clear again for the some that will slip you’ll build guardrails)This all boils down to one flawed logic. Because it has ruchnyas risks, you chose to say it’s not a necessity when the entire world runs on it in every way of our life. From shopping to banking to earning a living, to even learning Torah m, checking in on airlines , research, cars, waze appliances etc. This is just a partial list. It’s so flawed to say it’s not a necessity because of a religious risk. That doesn’t change the metzuis.
To be clear we aren’t debating the need for filters rather for devices . And yes it’s fair to demand that TAG pay for it and stop being so stuck up about it. (I suspect you work for them)
Lastly, please don’t use fancy English . I am not as educated as you. It’s just confusing gotcha words
This conversation is going in circles:
To summarize: The internet is a true need in most circles (there are pockets of groups that manage without, but that’s the exception). It is dangerous and requires a filter.
The main issues are as follows:
Q1- Are there free filters that are good enough? If yes, why doesn’t TAG recommend them? Once TAG doesn’t give a hechsher on these filters, the schools don’t allow them.
Q2- Should TAG sponsor filters? A- I think every person who wants a filter but doesn’t want to pay can find a sponsor. I’ve sponsored a few filters for people that told me they want but that they can’t afford one. Maybe TAG should help people find sponsors.
Q3- What is TAG doing? Do they understand today’s teens and nisyonos? I’m not so sure about the answer to these questions, and that’s why I don’t give my Tzeddakah to TAG. I’m assuming this depends on the area that the TAG is located. Boro Park TAG is and should be different than the one in the Five Towns, etc. I once took a girl who was struggling (but working on growing) with Yiddishkeit to the Boro Park location to put a filter on her smartphone, and the Tech gave her a speech that she shouldn’t have this phone. I wanted to bop him- I was so annoyed. Disclaimer: This story happened more than 10 years ago- maybe things have changed since then.amom,
“This conversation is going in circles:”
Yes.
“To summarize: The internet is a true need in most circles (there are pockets of groups that manage without, but that’s the exception). It is dangerous and requires a filter.”
This is not a summary. It’s taking a position and then providing no support for it. Outside of parnassa and situational exceptions like medical forms (where the provider provides a locked down tablet for inputting the required information), can you provide some examples where the Internet is a “true need” or “life necessity” rather than a convenience, allowing that the convenience can be substantial? Boarding passes and tickets can still be printed. You can tap to pay with many credit cards today. Most restaurants still can provide physical menus and take cash or credit cards. Atlases and maps can still be found in abundance at gas stations and rest stops. 1-800-FREE411 exists. You can still order physical phone books. Even the YWN hyped up phase-out of MetroCards in NYC doesn’t make Internet a “need” to ride the subway, since OMNY cards can be purchased and refilled at stations. I’m debating this like a bulldog because it’s important to understand the distinction between convenience and necessity when making life decisions. Treating something like a need when it’s not creates an unhealthy dependency. And, despite how Chaim87 is trying to paint me, I’m OOT. My “circle” does primarily use smartphones, laptops, and tablets. I engage with the Internet almost every day. Case in point: I’m posting on YWN. I’m not the one in a bubble of delusion. The people who think their smartphones rank up there with air, food, water, and shelter are.
“Q1- Are there free filters that are good enough? If yes, why doesn’t TAG recommend them? Once TAG doesn’t give a hechsher on these filters, the schools don’t allow them.”
I would be really interested to know if there are free options out there.
“Q2- Should TAG sponsor filters? A- I think every person who wants a filter but doesn’t want to pay can find a sponsor. I’ve sponsored a few filters for people that told me they want but that they can’t afford one. Maybe TAG should help people find sponsors.”
Kol hakavod!
Hey friends Any ideas for me?
I started working at a new office and the owners aren’t Frum so the computers aren’t with filters and although I don’t struggle with any compulsive behaviors that would compromise my Kedush (except maybe overeating) I’m uncomfortable about working on a computer that doesn’t meet the requirements as per the rabbonim takunas.
I’ve asked them for the name of the filter which they claimed it might have after denying there was a filter initially but they haven’t provided an answer. Neither can they clarify exactly WHAT their filter is filtering.
Basically it sounds like they just threw out that answer to satisfy me.
So I offered to pay for a monthly service if they’d install a kosher filter. They said they didn’t want.
I’m just not sure I’m ready to give them some ultimatum about not showing up to work because of this.
In the past I’ve walked out of a job because of this issue. Employer refusing to put a filter on my computer.
Should I annual my vow to Hashem which I made to not use unfiltered devices?
Should I quit without any plan for a new job and hope for the best?
Help …
Always
There is a principle – you do not have to spend money (or time that is equivalent) on sofek medrabonan. for example, R Feinstein says that you were not able to immediately find out whether a store is owned by Jews and whether it sold chametz properly, you can buy from that store after Pesach instead of spending time investigating it. I wonder whether this can be used here: say, I am not sure whether I’ll end up seeing inappropriate pictures if I venture into a risky endeavor of ordering airline tickets, I don’t have to spend more time & money to order tickets over the phone. Of course, if I am such at person that might start calling 900 numbers under those pictures, then it is isur meduoraita and I need to be TAGged immediately.
Avram, in terms of true need –
you are aware that cars kill more people than internet, right? Do most people think twice before taking a ride to a store? I think we are relying that Hashem protects simple people doing routine activities. Internet is still news for some communities, but you can be sure that in one more generation, it will be like cars. Do I need to be careful looking for Torah lectures? for historical information? stock prices? kids doing SAT? And, of course, I don’t think you are accessing YWN via a dialup, so this discussion is highly theoretical.@Avram in MD
There is workaround for everything. define a necessity. If it means something that you absolutely can’t live without such as working then yes you’d be correct in saying outside of work it isn’t a total must. But I think most people define a necessity as something that’s so part and parcel of society, in so many areas from shopping to banking to travel to cars to appliances. Sure technically it’s just a convenience but it’s a very very strong convenience that touches upon so many aspects in life. All that you mention are simply workarounds and not the normal accepted practices in 2025. To need to schlep to omny stations are all huge inconveniences. It’s enough to be called a necessity, especially with the combination that you’ll be using it at work too. As I noted electricity is not a must either. I get that it’s not “dangerous” like the internet so who cares. But the point of my analogy is to say that just like electricity is a necessity so to the internet. I am leaving out the fact that eventually you won’t be able to never use internet as all cars will have it and airport checks ins etc will only be via internet.I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Because the internet is spiritually dangerous you are forcing yourself to take an unrealistic position. You don’t feel it’s a necessity because you don’t want it to be a necessity vs facing the true reality.
Just to sum it up the translation of the word “necessity” is perhaps where we differ. If you’d like let’s call it a very strong need. And just because it’s dangerous (to some) doesn’t negate that need. Since it is a strong need, a larger focus on free filters must be provided .
@ amom
1) I am not tech savvy but I think there are solutions such as just child locks that can be leveraged. It won’t block as much but it takes care of key risks. Let’s not aim
For perfection. And yes Tag ups the ante for the schools
2) I have never heard of filter sponsors and I struggle with paying for some of them myself . At times I do go without filters because of the costs
3) I have had similar stories with TAG. I once told them I need you tube for work, which is true. (By now I can perhaps get away with chat gpt.) They told me well what would you do if you tube never existed ? Like seriously? This is my need now .how about this solution that might work for some kids in some families:
the kid gets a fancy computer and any other presents he wants. In exchange, the rules are – he uses computers for 1-2 hours a day, after he did homework, in the living room with the screen towards the public. Preferably, a parent or an older sibling is there also, so that they can discuss interesting things they learn online.Always_Ask_Questions,
“you are aware that cars kill more people than internet, right?”
You are aware that Jews have a neshama, right?
“Do most people think twice before taking a ride to a store?”
I do think twice before taking a car, and I daven for safety when I or my wife are driving. But this is a false analogy fallacy (sorry Chaim87). The danger of a smartphone is not the same as the danger of driving a car!
“Internet is still news for some communities, but you can be sure that in one more generation, it will be like cars”
I’m personally davening for a backlash. Then maybe we’ll get technology that is less destructive.
“Do I need to be careful looking for Torah lectures? for historical information? stock prices? kids doing SAT?”
Let’s say you have a hankering to learn how to speak Filipino in your spare time. So you download Duolingo. After all, it’s the self-claimed “world’s best way to learn a language”. It collects your name, email address, device ID, user ID, 3rd party advertising data, phone number, diagnostic data, and it even wants your contacts list! So you start a lesson, and it gives you happy jingle sound effects and a smiley bird when you get answers right. Fine. Who doesn’t want to feel good about learning something? Then it plays a video ad. And another. And then it starts notifying you about keeping daily “streaks” alive. And it plays more ad videos. But now it’s Shabbos, so you turn your phone off and put it away. And after Shabbos you see a new email: YOU MADE DUOLINGO SAD! This “innocent” language app hacks your brain, using dopamine rewards and guilt to manipulate you into spending more time on the app. Why? They don’t get paid if you can actually speak Filipino at the end of the day. They get paid if your eyeballs are in front of those ad videos. And they get paid for all of that personal data they collected about you (oh yeah and they had a data breach recently, whoops, sorry!).
The Torah lectures are good, and sites like Torah Anytime ask for donations, and you should donate to them. But yeah, you gotta be careful looking for historical information, stock prices, kids doing SAT, or anything else. Because your phone is not serving you that content out of the goodness of its heart. It wants something in return. Your eyes. Your time. Your personal data. Your web of personal contacts. And it will push more and more content in front of you to get that engagement. Even if you’re not tempted initially towards inappropriate content or bitul zman, your phone’s apps are working overtime to get you tempted.
@Avram- that’s not a summary.
Yes, it is. You are part of the exception of people who find the internet unnecessary. Kol Hakavod! I don’t have a smartphone but need my laptop for work. Today’s employers expect their employees to be available beyond work hours, especially if they want to grow at their jobs.Point is- this conversation is going in circles
Chaim87,
You’re not a teenager, so you’ve not hit me with the strongest “necessity” of the smartphone that’s foremost on their minds: communication.
“All my friends have phones – they are all in a group chat together and I’m missing out on so much!” So you cave and buy them a phone. “All my friends are on WhatsApp/Instagram/whatever! Can I have that app please, I’m still left out!” or in some circles, “My friends hate me because I make the chat have green bubbles, pls pls pls can I have an iPhone?!?!” Cave. Then suddenly your daughter is chatting with boys, or your son is chatting with girls. Or your kid never has respite from the bullies at school; they can torment her from the moment she wakes up until the moment she falls asleep. And despite your “unlimited data plan” you get throttled 15 days into the cycle.
And it’s really sad, because in communities with widespread smartphone use, kids without one really are left out socially. But I have yet to see one kid given a smartphone who didn’t take damage from it. Everyone is dumping their TAG horror stories here, so here’s mine. I’ve spoken to many parents who regret getting their teens smartphones.
The communities you deride as being “Amish” or in a “bubble” have perhaps done the wisest and nicest thing possible for their children – created a space for them to interact and socialize with each other without smartphones.
amom,
“Yes, it is. You are part of the exception of people who find the internet unnecessary. Kol Hakavod!”
You’re picturing a caricature of me based on my position. I use multiple laptops for work, as well as a desktop, and I connect to supercomputers. I also do not own a smartphone (I used to, but got rid of it). I don’t work for TAG either, nor am I affiliated with them in any way.
@Avram in MD
So now you are moving the conversion from internet devices to smartphones to teens. So let me clear the air
1) When I say internet devices are nearly a necessity in 2025, I do not mean a smartphone for teens. Of course that is not a must a necessity and is destructive even for non religous people.
2) So what do I mean? I mean the idea that a FAMILY as a whole needs to be connected to the internet, typically via multiple devices
3) so what kind of devices do refer to? It varies from a family to family. But I’d say parents need smartphones , PC’s, laptops are needed, your car, maybe your some other smart screen , IPAD etc. Do kids “need” to own that? No. But families whole likely do need some of my list.To be clear, I don’t think its being Amish if you don’t hand your child a smartphone with instragram on it. But it is being Amish if you say that internet for an entire family isn’t a necessity in 2025. Also a necessity I admit can be a bit ambiguous. People can live without it However, ist nearly a need like electricty. Leaving out any danger those are the facts. Now you bring danger in to the picture. That doesn’t change the facts though.
So if the facts are that internet connected devices are a need, and a typical family’s needs multiple device. we also know that yes it posses a danger even more so to teens. We can ask families to pay $20 a month per device. but that quikcly end sup being $100 a month and if they don’t disconnect /cancel filters on the old discarded devices it quikcly piles up. Youi can see how thats a huge strain. And the right thing to do is for TAG who has the resouces and know how plus it is a tzedak already, to supply free filters while requesting a donation
I also challenge TAG to wake up a little and end these silly bans like on 24-6 devices because Oy vey it can connect to the internet even though parents can lock that connection and contorl when a child even uses that. thats on top of the fact that its content is kosher. Like do they realize what 90% were doing during covid wtahcing you tube and goyish stuff? Even now if you want kids not towatch netflex give them ksoher stuff. Stop with this farfarmukait. But this is a side topic.
Just to reiterate we agree re children having smartphones thats not a necssity.
Avram, a great duolingo example, lets see what we can learn from it:
first, when the account has no admin privileges, you may not be able to install the app. So, you would have to ask the parent whether it is a good idea.
2nd – the kid should know basics of cybersecurity and not give his contact list, etc. As this is really low risk – a great place to check your skills.
3) I am guessing video ads are for the free version, pay $10/month and let your kid learn the languages without distractions. Take it out of his college fund. He’ll thank you later.
4) if you see the screen in the living room, you will notice if ads are becoming too much or inappropriate. Generally, ads follow what they learned about you and what can be sold. Do not go to bad sites and buy,or just search for, several computer items and books from that account to ensure boring ads for years to come.
5) looking up stuff – great time to teach about sources – which ones are reliable, which ones can be biased and why, which ones are true Torah sources and how to determine what the derech is
6) latest challenge – kids go by GPT answers without even going to the source. Still working on this – showing them how to be sceptical with the answer, how to double-check them.Avram > The communities you deride as being “Amish” or in a “bubble” have perhaps done the wisest and nicest thing possible for their children
We have a number of people here from these communities. OK, maybe they are OTD by the virtue of showing up here Sometimes they are full of Torah knowledge, but also they are often unable to spell, can’t express themselves, do not have ability to listen to other view, etc. You know it as well as I do.
Chaim87,
“So now you are moving the conversion from internet devices to smartphones to teens.”
Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to move the conversation – I had been asking both you and amom for examples of where smartphones or Web browsers were a necessity, and the example of communication and teens popped into my head. I’m glad you agree that they are not a necessity for teens, but the teens would surely disagree with you, and then they’d become you in this conversation and you would become me. And I’d love to see how you’d answer them.
On the subject of shifting the conversation – I have never maintained that a family should have no devices. I was surprised by your contention that a family “needs” multiple devices with Web browsers (that would need filtering), and I happily argued about whether devices are a necessity or a convenience for many posts, because having a proper perspective about this technology is important in decision making for how to deal with its risks and danger. The downside to this rabbit trail is that you and amom have pigeonholed my position into something that it’s not.
Here’s my question to you: let’s drop for now the question of whether having access to a Web browser is a necessity or not. I’ll spot you a Web browser. Maybe your doctor ordered you to play Wordle every day. Fine. Now, as part of your argument against TAG, you contended that filtering is prohibitively expensive because families need multiple devices with Web browsers. Why? Why not have a desktop or laptop computer to access the Web if needed, and then if you really need to tap around town rather than having a flip phone, get smartphones from a company like KosherCell, which come with no browser at all (hence no need for costly aftermarket filtering), but have dozens to hundreds of apps for ride sharing, public transit, banking, email, payments, etc. that satisfy all of your examples above about how people use phones in 2025? Then you’d only have a shaila of filtering one one device. Can you really tell me that having 8 devices in a household with Web browsers is truly a necessity in 2025? Or is it a convenience? Amom is trying to argue your side, but note that she doesn’t have a smartphone at all.
Note that there is a difference between devices that connect to the Internet and devices that supply an ability to browse the Web. My dumbphone accesses the Internet… to get OTA software and firmware updates and to get weather and maps updates for navigation. But it needs no costly aftermarket filtering because it lacks a Web browser.
“Now you bring danger in to the picture. That doesn’t change the facts though.”
Oh but it does. Because realizing there’s danger means one can act to reduce or eliminate the danger. And to be able to do that effectively, one has to take an honest assessment of what a need vs a convenience is.
Avram > ? Why not have a desktop or laptop computer to access the Web if needed, and then if you really need to tap around town rather than having a flip phone, get smartphones from a company like KosherCell,
this is a reasonable idea.
You could also make that computer into a server and have all devices in a house use that one filter. Check T&C whether filter companies will let you, or they would rather have you pay for each device separately. Maybe, they don’t care about rare computer-savvy users. Of course, having filter on the router would also solve this (except connecting via mobile or starbucks).
@chaim86
I’ve just spent over an hour going through this entire thread, and I can’t help but feel it’s been a frustrating waste of time—not just for me, but likely for everyone involved. Let’s break this down practically. If you can afford a smartphone, a computer, a car, or any other big-ticket item, the cost of a filter is hardly a barrier. We’re talking about a basic expense here, not a luxury. More importantly, having a filter isn’t optional—it’s an obligation. Every halachic authority agrees that safeguarding yourself online is a must, and this isn’t just a rabbinic rule; it’s rooted in Torah law. No one serious disputes that.You’re posting on Yeshiva World News, a platform tied to the Chareidi community—Yeshiva is right there in the name. In this world, if you want internet access while staying true to frum values, a filter is non-negotiable. It’s just how it works. I’d bet that if you asked most people in this community—myself included—they’d say the same: paying for your own filter is your responsibility, not TAG’s or anyone else’s. You might find a handful of people who see it your way, but honestly, you’re pretty much on your own here. Most of us just feel sorry that you’re stuck on this hill, hoping one day you’ll see why personal accountability matters.I’m genuinely curious—who’s your Rav? Because I can’t imagine any reputable posek backing this stance. At this point, though, I think this whole discussion has run its course. No matter how clearly I—or anyone else—explain why your reasoning doesn’t hold up, it seems like you’ll just keep doubling down with more excuses and tangents about why TAG should foot the bill. It’s exhausting and pointless. So, I’m done here, and I suspect others are too. Continuing this is like talking to a wall—nothing’s getting through, and there’s no progress to be made. Wishing you clarity moving forward.
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