Exorbitant Filter Pricing

Chaim87, not sure why go think you have a right to tell a tzedakah what their job is.

And there is plenty of money for both.

Is that something you know for a fact, or something you made up?

You think R matsyhu started it just for a limited goal of “awareness” or was it to make sure you end yo having filters?

Definitely the latter, but you can only being the horse to the water. You can convince someone of the importance of protecting their internet, and even volunteer to help with it. But if they’re not even convinced enough to spend $100 a year on it, why should you also be obligated to pay for their filter?

@DaasYochid ☕
Why don’t I have a “right” to tell a tzedaka what their job is if they advertise as such? It’s not like I am telling bikkur Cholom to pay for my filter when they have no shaychis . This is within what they advertise. I understand that I their official advertisement probably doesn’t say that directly. But it’s self understood. Furthermore, most tzedaka offer a service and don’t tell others what’s allowed and what isn’t allowed. Tag holds itself as almost like your bies din making takonos and saying what’s permitted and what’s not . When someone says all these things needs filters and it’s not enough to have your wife lock your phone, then don’t also charge me and arm or a leg. And on top of that they make all the schools enforce it upon us without ever taking into account affordability.
So yes I have a right to demand they pay for it. And I think it’s borderline geniva that they don’t

don’t also charge me and arm or a leg….
So yes I have a right to demand they pay for it. And I think it’s borderline geniva that they don’t

It’s *geneiva* that they don’t pay for *your* Techloq or Gentech subscription? Are you out of your mind?

This era of government handouts has really gone to your head.

@Always_Ask_Questions,

Yes I don;t deny that they offer good advice and tips too. Although I think their chinyukisha approach that everything is assur and of suspicion first hand (like their 24-6 ban) without facing reality that you need a kosher outlet is misguided. But that’s a side point. The main piint is, awareness if very nice but tachlis giving the free filter is what clinches a deal.

@Menachem Shmeil Firstly its not $100 a year. For a typicla faimly with multiple devices it can cost $400-$500 a year. Thats a alot of money. To you second point, I fail to see your point. Why should you be obligated to pay fpor the filter too> because you are svaing lives? You aren’t obligated to teach people importance either. But you understand there is a need to so people get protection. Sometimes yes its the free filkter that clinces the deal. If you are dedciated to this mitzva I’d think its incumbent to do it fully. this sense of entitlement that alll i ahve to do is educate and not more is just wrong. Once you start you have to do it to its fullest. And yes more people will get filters if its free. Even now, not everyone does it just because they see the need 100%. they do it bvecaus ethe rav or yeshiva forced them and then they cheat or cut corners on what they can get away with. And sometimes its not even intentionally, its just a mindset that when i have to pay I hesitate if I really need it. (Its like on the flip side, I don’t go to free chol hamoed trips but if its a $5 entry fee then I go because even though its “only $5” people don’t come a smuch when they are charged.) And so I beg to differ on your notion of taht they shouldn’t go the last leg.

And I”ll repeat it again why not go that last leg? What does it cost already if most people will pay anyhow? And you’ll get more donations. In an environment where so much money is flowing. People raise $5M over shabbos, Gevrim make brissim that cost $500K like nothing , you really acn’t raise $1M for filters? Like why are we even debating if they are obligated or not? Why not just do it? why be so small minded?

@Menachem Shmeil,
“I don’t think you understand how economics, especially Jewish economics, works. If something is free, no one will pay hundreds of dollars for it. ”
Thats false and here is why. If you combine requesting donations with the fact that you have a better fundrasing mechasim since you offer free things, its not going to cost millions. Ask Bokkur cholim if they think they’d raise as much as they raise if they would just provide vending machines vs free food. The sale spitch is the wow how much you give to yenim. Secondly, unlike Bikkur cholim, each time a perosn walks in and gets a filter the rep would ask can you kindly help us defray the cost by paying for it? I think most would say yes. And when its on a person to perosn basis vs just a sign people give.

Maybe you go raise 1 million dollars to pay for people’s filters.
Thats a silly argument. I am not a fundraiser, don’t know how to, don’t have the connections nor the expertise in this like TAG. Furthermore, I am not the one going around to shuls yelling that you need filters. TAG is in that space already.

TAG doesn’t claim to do that, so they don’t have to.
I know what they “claim” they do. But when your rav speaks during shabbos TAG or when there is a broad cmapiagn the image and vibe they give is that they get you filters .

You keep on falling on the same arguments that I refuse to take as a given. The hairsplitting that they only do a “half job” even if they claim that’s all they do is both misleading and disinegnious. It also them being cheapsaktes and small minded. Don’t tell me I should fundraise when i am not in that space. Theyc ollect a few million anyhow whats the big deal to up it another 1-2M. Its not so expensive. At a time when middle class familes stuglle just to buy eggs why must they place more burdens on us?

P.S> another good mashol would be a shul membership. I don’t know too mnay shuls that really don’t give a seat to those that don’t pay. 90% of the ime people feel there is an achryus on their own and pay. the 10% who don’t most are going through hard times. But oy vey the shul nebach has to fundraise for them. it cost money. You understand that this is the way we work.

@Menachem Shmei

Cmon you know that TAG is the one who sets the Taknos of what most be filtered. And while i think they are extra machmir, they aren’t just the advisor. they are the one who sets the guidelines for the shcools and rabbonim.

Furthermore, again you bring up Bikkur cholim, imgaine for a second that Bikkur cholim only provided vending machines but not free food. Would you really call it a tzedka still? Like very nice they help “facilatate food” when people need it. But Cmon that would hardly be called a tzedaka. Your compasrion to “free houses” has no shaychis as that has nothing to do with the Cholah or being sick. And by the way, I shouldn’t say no shayhcis, in fact guess what? Bikkur cholim DOES GIVE FREE HOUSES. Yes while your loved one is in a hospital they offer a free place to sleep nearby.l There you go they do theiur job to the fuillest. They could have stopped at just food. Who am I to feel “entitled” to free sleeping space too?

To your point about “sense of entitlement” , if you are a private business like Techloq gezintahiet, I don’t say that they should give me free interent. But if you are a TZEDAKA who belongs to the tzibur , then yes we are “entitled” to demand that it does a full job vs half baked job. When you combine the fact that the costs often stem from their psak and that its a tzedaka, its a very fair ask. I love your bikkur cholim mashal because that prove smy point. They don’t stop at just vedning manchines, they don’t stop at just free food. They even give free houses. In other words when a loved one is in a hospital, you know Bikkur cholim will take care of all your lving needs around the hospital FREE OF CHARGE. Now thats called doing the job.,

@Always_Ask_Questions
“tag has almost free option (one tim $25)”
I think that depedns on the device and its really not nogai for most devices and needs. Its the option when its just a lock vs a filter.

“the disclosure is in small print, which is not a good midah but this is nitpicking”
I beg to differ. i don’t think thats nitpicking. i think that talks to what i have said that they like to dance on both chasnas. They don’t want to sau too loud that it costs money.

“tag does not suggest free tools like openvpn that might be a good help for many people”
Again to my point. When TAG doesn’t suggest something that becomes a psak that most yeshivas require you to abide by. Its not merelya suggestion. So they issue a psak that we must go and spend money but can’t help us pay for it.

My main point still remains. its a half baked job. No other organzation does things like that. My Bikkur cholim analysis proves that. Look at how they go the full way

Daas > OpenDNS and the like are easily bypassed.
Together with a filter on the router? Maybe we should not go into too much details, children might be reading 🙂
I was trying to move soft on my relatively well behaved teens. This included
– monitoring their activities for some time to map out what is being used, and how it changes after some are blocked
– selective filtering out the worst, while creating minor problems in others. Sometimes even somewhat denying that my interference is the source of problems.
– in case of misbehavior or rebellion against the measures – whitelisting, leaving only math sites accessible 😉
– kids learned some of cool cyber skills that might help him land a job with NSA

> Keeping an unfiltered computer in a public area is a disaster waiting to happen. There isn’t always someone else home.

Why such extreme – why totally unfiltered. This is in addition to other measures. But if you have an account that it totally opened to everyone, it would be pretty hard for someone to mis-sue it. And how many families have 1 teen sitting at home for long time periods? where are parents? siblings?

And for total assurance – You can also have a parent control system that takes snapshots of the screen every so many minutes so that you can exclude any untoward things happening when nobody is looking. One I saw was I think shareware for $30 or something like that.

Chaim87,

I have a few thoughts about your posts above.

1. I looked at TAG’s Web site and it says in large text, “Free Filter Installation“, then in smaller text, “We install filters for free!*“, and in very small text, “*Any charges incurred go directly to the filter company“. I agree with you that this wording is misleading. The largest text communicates the notion that they can put a filter on your device for free, which is not seemingly the case. Even the smallest text where they state there is a cost turns it into a maybe with the word “any”. A more accurate wording would be something like: “Free expert installation on your device with the purchase of a TAG approved filter”.

2. I continue to disagree with your position that it is TAG’s responsibility to provide free filtering because TAG thinks it’s important for people to have. Using that reasoning we could argue that someone should be given anything that’s good for him for free. Your response to this point is to create an artificial distinction where filtering is different from everything else because you “need to be convinced” that it’s needed. Well, some people need to be convinced that they should eat kosher, or have a mezuza, or have auto insurance. The derivative arguments are all bogus. Who cares if you have 8 devices that need to be filtered? Nobody told you to go buy those 8 devices. There are kosher dumbphones, smartphones, and tablets out there that can be purchased with no need for aftermarket filtering, and there’s no real need for a Web browser on multiple separate devices. When making a purchase, a person has to factor in the cost of maintenance and usage.

@ Avram in MD
1) not everyone holds you need a filter. And not everyone holds you need such costly filters. Yet Tag became the defacto rav. So that’s right away different than hashgachas. The cost is per device is far more.
2) some of us need smartphones and tablets . And in 2025 is a basic necessity vs a luxury, even if you are moser nefesh not to
3) Leaving the first two points aside, the key point still remains that TAG is a tzedaka not a business. Its point is to help people get filters. Sure you can hairsplit and say it’s only here to assist and advise. But once you’re in that space and collecting money as a tzedaka for that cause, it’s small minded and misleading (as you admit) to stop midway. No other tzedaka is such cheapskates in 2025. I keep on deferring to bikkur Cholim who could just help facilitate easier hospital stays. But they do more . They give you free food and even free sleeping arrangements. They do the full job. The same is with any other tzedaka that I know. If you want people to really not use unfiltered internet do it to the fullest. Stop being so cheap. (I suspect there is also Shultz involved)

Avrah,
yes, chromebooks are also good solutions.
on opendns, you can disable wifi and just use ethernet cable to the router. You can use glue and nails to make sure the computer is not going to starbucks – unless you live near one. Talk to your neighbors not to use 613 as password to their network.

On any computer, you should always have an admin account controlled by parents, and you can install all kind of family control software in that account. As I mentioned, maybe the most fool-proof would be to get screen snapshots every several minutes and then either quickly review them or run thru some recognition software. You can probably write such software in one hour if you don’t want to pay $20 for shareware.

But my point about related issue is not a substitute for filters, but it is important not to just focus on filters.
There are these reasonable instructions on how to use electronics in the house, and these should be distributed to all parents and repeated multiple times. It is very suspicious that TAG is not mentioning these: either they are vested in their digital solution, or they do not look at the problem at large. In either case, this does not inspire confidence in their professional judgment and business model. I think interested people should talk to them and ask questions.

Chaim87,

“1) not everyone holds you need a filter. And not everyone holds you need such costly filters. Yet Tag became the defacto rav.”

I’m having trouble reconciling the conflicting statements that “not everybody holds…” and “TAG became the de-facto rav”.

“2) some of us need smartphones and tablets . And in 2025 is a basic necessity vs a luxury, even if you are moser nefesh not to”

We’ve had this discussion already. No, outside of a work requirement, they are not a “basic necessity”.

“3) Leaving the first two points aside, the key point still remains that TAG is a tzedaka not a business.”

They do not state that they are a tzedaka on their Web page. They use the term “community service”, and they rely on volunteer labor.

“But once you’re in that space and collecting money as a tzedaka for that cause, it’s small minded and misleading (as you admit) to stop midway.”

I did not “admit” that. I said that the wording on their Web site was misleading, not that there was something wrong with what they actually do. If they were more clear up front, it might keep some folks from getting surprised by the cost. It’s not good to surprise people who are trying to do a good thing.

“No other tzedaka is such cheapskates in 2025. I keep on deferring to bikkur Cholim who could just help facilitate easier hospital stays. But they do more . They give you free food and even free sleeping arrangements. They do the full job.”

This is not a legitimate point if we don’t have the finances and expense sheets before us. Bikur Cholim likely works with far more funds. If a Bikur Cholim was just getting started in a town and had a small donation base, would you ding them for not doing everything you want when you want for free? Maybe TAG should go all out on a fundraising campaign to bring in enough donations to provide X number of free filters for the community, or to develop and maintain free in-house filtering software. Would that make you happy? Would you donate?

Always_Ask_Questions,

“could you check if there is phone software that can take regular screenshots and upload them to a cloud for other family members to see – this should help.”

I want my children to be safe, but they also have a need for some degree of privacy.

Avram > I want my children to be safe, but they also have a need for some degree of privacy.

That is a good question, and I wonder what are practices about it. First, you can ask a 3rd party to do that. You can even mix up snapshots from all kids for further privacy! As far as I know, halakha does not give my kids privacy in my house, but it calls on me to be careful with their feelings. So, I’ll use the collected information in a way that will not reveal my methods to the kids (unless they will read it here, of course). It is a hard task, but who said parenting is easy.

Always_Ask_Questions,

“In this case, an intruder might take over a local account but not necessarily of the admin account.”

They’ll have my bank account, email account, and photos, but at least they can’t update my drivers!

“Then, just let each parent be an admin for the other parent. Or, have parent’s parents do that 🙂 Feel free to outsource this to local rav or rebetzin or to any third party.”

I’m sure the local rav or rebbetzin will love being bothered a thousand times each day by congregants who need their system patched. Maybe instead of paskening shailos he can set up a DMS… oh wait, we’re re-inventing TAG.

“52-week course on hashkafic guidance does not sound appealing if they are not willing to put some basics upfront, and we don;t know what kind of guidance it is.”

Well, saying “just keep the computer in the living room and tell your kids to be good. There, I’ve solved children and tech for you!” doesn’t sound appealing to me either. These devices are a huge nisayon even for really good kids and adults.

@Avram in MD
1) As a shita not everyone holds you need a filter. But in realty the schools and mosdos take a stromng stand and require you to follow TAG. (You can’t become a stoilner chusid just for your school)
2) Sure you can say outside of work its not a necssity. But thats not really true. You are living in a bubble. In 2025 almost everyone uses Internet sometime or another. Those that don’t have will call a more “modern familyu member” etc. Technically yes you don’t need to own a device. But cmon its not relastic. The entire world completely runs on internet. This bubble that you built that its not necissty is a bubble. Everything runs on interent today and its normal to not buy things on Amzaon. You won’t to be machmiror extra holy and say no thats a very respectable thing. Bascially, if you took religon out of it, there is no way you wouldn’t have devcies. You only don’t have it because you are relgious. That means its a necssity. A necissity doesn’t mena life or death. It means what’s the norm for today. (Just like a phone, electricity or car. After all we can live amish too)
3) Don’t tell me they aren’t a tzedka. They fundraise and make a Shabbos TAG> My rav encourages us to give tzedaka to them. I refuse to get stuck on technicalities of what it “says” on its website. Its a tzedka . You and I know that. Don’t drei akup.
4) Yes I would donate for free filters. And yes TAG should go fundraise for free filters. That’s exactly my point. Stop doing a half baked job when you are a tzedaka anyhow.. And I don’t believe they can’t fiundraise. There is so much money BH today. Our streets are paved with gold kmat. And klal yisroel gives alot to tzedaka.

Avram > hand them a full fledged smartphone with a “be good, Totty’s watching!”

you don’t say them that. You, presumably, raised them well and taught them middot tovot. But, you have an admin account and you watch their behavior “just in case” – same way you, hopefully, lock your doors and watch who comes into your house. OpenDNS will show you a list of sites they are addressing. you can check that monthly. If you have reasons to be concerned – do snapshots every 30 minutes. So, a quick look at 10 pictures per day.

Talking about Monitoring, WebChaver (using the Covenant Eyes technology) is incredible. They are priced very well. Very easy to put on multiple devices.

They take many screenshots throughout the day and email them once a day or twice a week to the assigned Shomer.

When the program detects anything inappropriate (pictures or links) it flags the email as Highlighted Activity for the Shomer to look at.

Major plus: All the screenshots are completely blurred. You can’t make out any of the *text* on screen (bank info, personal info, texts, emails, etc.). All you see is a general view of the page (you can make out what the user is looking at, a shiur, a cartoon, or something inappropriate.) and the URL.

I use this, and it has a huge effect knowing that anything I scroll past or open up is being watched by someone else. Whether it’s on YouTube, sent on WhatsApp, or opened from Google Drive. Highly recommended.

Menachem: Who is your Shomer? (Not his/her name, obviously; just their position and/or relationship to you.)

You need to go after the growing crowd who buys flat screens to watch Netflix … The way you get them is via free filters

Those people don’t want filters altogether.

I think what you want is to pay them to get filters.

And TAG should be the ones to pay them.

@☕ DaasYochid ☕
every yid wants to be good. There are ways to reach them too but that means don’t charge. And yes it may mean to stop banning things like 24-6. By the way it’s a lifesaver for me. My children would be on YouTube like during Covid if not.
Free filters for all is the basic starting point

Always_Ask_Questions,

“You, presumably, raised them well and taught them middot tovot.”

Please G-d, but should we hand even a good, well raised child something so dangerous? I know people will respond with something like “a power saw is dangerous, but if you teach your kid to use one safely, and he is responsible, he can build you a nice shtender!” But a power saw is not a good comparison to a smartphone. A smartphone is a powersaw that by design tries to turn around and eat you.

“But, you have an admin account and you watch their behavior “just in case” – same way you, hopefully, lock your doors and watch who comes into your house.”

Locking the doors to your house tries to prevent something bad from happening. Monitoring usage (especially if done surreptitiously) will only catch something bad after it has already happened. I keep my door unlocked, but don’t worry, I have security cameras!

OpenDNS will show you a list of sites they are addressing. you can check that monthly. If you have reasons to be concerned – do snapshots every 30 minutes. So, a quick look at 10 pictures per day.”

What if they take their device out of the house? Or just disconnect it from your WiFi? You’ll say glue it to the table, but this discussion is mostly discussing smartphones.

@avrahm in MD
Frum Jews are not supposed to live like the Amish. Not having devices is living like Amish. To be clear cvs am I knocking those that chose to be above and beyond but you can’t say that it’s expected of every frum Jew. Devices are a necessity . You can say filters are expected . But to say not having devices is a norm is just not true. (Of course tag says otherwise but that’s a bubble ) Yes people need devices and yes when Tesla is 199 a month and everything else 399 where most will have internet soon anyhow it’s also a necessity.

The growing movement to live without devices is tiny. That’s a myth that tag likes to sell. Furthermore, that doesn’t mean no other internet connections like iPads , teslas , smart kitchens etc . It’s strictly a smart phone discussion and it’s a tiny blip. It’s not growing.

Lastly of course it’s a full tzedaka like tomchai Shabbos . That’s very clear and yes of course maser is ok. Now you are trying to twist things .

“Fallacy of the converse.”

I love that term. Thank you. Posters constantly engage in that fallacy (“that’s a Christian concept” is often bandied-about by some who might think that you are “too frum”) and that’s a great short and suffice response.