Exciting Facts that we’ll have by Geula

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  • #2184329
    CS
    Participant

    Hi, I’m trying to take to heart that I need to be a maamin and await Moshiach’s coming every day. The best way to do this is through learning about it. I thought this may interest others and so I’m opening this thread for all posts (Source based) and thoughts related… looking forward!

    The most exciting thing I’ve learned recently is that I’ll be able to enter the Kodesh hakodoshim as long as I’m at that spiritual level, any day, when moshiach comes. What do you find exciting?

    #2184374
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    CS,

    Please provide the source for your Kodesh HaKadashim claim.

    #2184396
    sly fox
    Participant

    Even if that were true, I’m going to guess that anyone who uses the internet frequently, especially the coffee room, is likely light years away from that level.

    just saying.

    #2184431
    CS
    Participant

    Gadolhadofi, judging by your posts, the source, (a sicha of The Rebbe with footnotes to other sources, but it’s the Rebbes chiddush) most likely wouldn’t interest you. But it’s exciting for me. I’d love to hear what you find most exciting about the geula.

    And sly Fox, why do you think that? The internet is pareve- it’s how you use it, unless your personal Rav assured it so it’s an Aveira for you?

    #2184454
    CS
    Participant

    Sly Fox- using the internet is no aveira- unless your Rav said it’s trief. It depends what you use it for

    #2184453
    CS
    Participant

    Gadol hadofi the source is Sefer HaSichos 5751, Sichas Tazria Metzora, last ois (יד). See the footnotes as well for other sources brought

    #2184479
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    CS,

    Is this your interpretation or did the Rebbe, zt”l explicitly say that “anyone will be able to enter the Kodesh hakodoshim as long as they’re at that spiritual level, any day, when moshiach comes”? From Yechezkel (43:7) we see that the Third Bayis will be quite a distance removed from the city to prevent us from defiling it. People will certainly not be able to enter the Kodesh HaKadashim every day, regardless of their spiritual level.

    #2184481
    sly fox
    Participant

    Nothing to do with Aveira C”V. Just commenting on the spiritual level necessary.

    #2184499
    CS
    Participant

    Gadol I gave you the source, that’s an interesting question but I haven’t looked into all the footnotes. Feel free to and share what you find

    #2184524
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    CS,

    I’ll check it out but please understand that many people won’t accept chiddushim that only exist in Chabad writings but not in more universally accepted sources. Nor do they have to.

    #2184579

    I am confused – to what degree we expect rules to change in bm3? Chofetz Chaim wanted Yidden to learn kedoshim to be ready. Now, we here that radom CR posters will wander around like they are kohanim gedolim as long as they see themselves “on the level”

    #2184595

    I double checked w/ Chofetz Chaim – he quotes Gemora in Sanhedrin, saying all you need to prepare is to learn Torah and do chesed.

    #2184654
    CS
    Participant

    Gadol hadofi
    Fair enough

    #2184655
    CS
    Participant

    AAQ

    “I am confused – to what degree we expect rules to change in bm3? Chofetz Chaim wanted Yidden to learn kedoshim to be ready. Now, we here that radom CR posters will wander around like they are kohanim gedolim as long as they see themselves “on the level”

    are you familiar with the 2 time periods of ימות המשיח? The first 40 years will be עולם כמנהגו נוהג, and the second will start with תחיית המתים and be miraculous.

    I’m not sure which time period it would fall into- it would make sense that it would be the second for several reasons. But I don’t have an explicit source though for when, just logic.

    Even someone who was a kohen couldn’t just become a kohen gadol because he wanted to (except for the time of corruption when the kohen gadol died every year). I assume there will be some sort of committee set up to ensure only people who are at the proper level will be allowed entry. It makes no logical sense that the holiest place in the world would be disrespected by being open to anyone to randomly walk in, when even the smallest Rebbe has a shamash who ensures there’s order and respect.

    #2184656
    CS
    Participant

    AAQ is that a statement or a question

    #2184657
    CS
    Participant

    Sly Fox- holiness in Yiddishkeit doesn’t mean secluding yourself from the world (although a period of that is necessary) we are not monks. The purpose of living in this world, instead of staying as neshamos, is to elevate everything permissible that we can. So I still don’t see the contradiction between using the internet as a means of spreading Torah etc. and reaching a high level

    #2184944
    bob hample1
    Participant

    im looking forward for the TRUTH to come out about ALL the trolls

    #2184956
    CS
    Participant

    Bob what makes you think I’m a troll?

    #2185010

    AAQ is that a statement or a question

    Statements generally end with “.” and questions with “?”.

    #2185017
    5ish
    Participant

    A source the Rebbe mentions is the pirush of the Tur on Shemos 19:6, which reads:

    “ואתם תהיו לי ממלכת כהנים – אלו זכו ישראל היו כולם כהנים גדולים ולע״ל תחזור להם שנא׳ ואתם כהני ה׳ תקראו.”

    #2185036
    CS
    Participant

    Thanks 5ish

    #2185038
    CS
    Participant

    Some more exciting features of the geula:

    1) we’ll be able to SEE Hashem (like a sixth sense will be added to detect Elokus in everything)

    2) we’ll learn directly from the greatest teacher of all times- moshiach himself will teach every single Yid

    3) moshiach will teach in a visual experiential way (I a holograms are a good preparation for this idea)

    #2185039
    CS
    Participant

    Now here’sa debate question: will we fly on eagles and clouds to EY? or are those references to airplanes?

    Thoughts welcome, sources even better

    #2185042
    CS
    Participant

    Btw if anyone is concerned about gashmius, we’ll have so much gashmius (as a result of the elevated level of ruchnius) that it won’t have value anymore- it’ll be the price of dust.

    But it will still be best quality gashmius- for example, chazal tell us that an ear of grain will be the size of an ox’s kidney, and that clothing and pastries will grow on trees (exact citations welcome).

    And in case you’re worried about adjusting to a different world, most likely the first 40 years will be the same nature that we’ve been used to until now. People will still die, although 100 years old will be considered a young age to die, etc.

    But we won’t have a yetzer hara although there will still be evil around us. So it’ll be a very cool time to advance in avodas Hashem and prepare for stage two which will be kicked off by the famous seuda and tchias hameisim.

    #2185098
    besalel
    Participant

    אַל יַעֲלֶה עַל הַלֵּב שֶׁבִּימוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ יִבָּטֵל דּבָר מִמִּנְהָגוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם. אוֹ יִהְיֶה שָׁם חִדּוּשׁ בְּמַעֲשֵׂה בְּרֵאשִׁית

    אָמְרוּ חֲכָמִים אֵין בֵּין הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה לִימוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ אֶלָּא שִׁעְבּוּד מַלְכֻיּוֹת בִּלְבַד.

    לֹא נִתְאַוּוּ הַחֲכָמִים וְהַנְּבִיאִים יְמוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ. לֹא כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּשְׁלְטוּ עַל כָּל הָעוֹלָם. וְלֹא כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּרְדּוּ בָּעַכּוּ”ם. וְלֹא כְּדֵי שֶׁיְּנַשְּׂאוּ אוֹתָם הָעַמִּים. וְלֹא כְּדֵי לֶאֱכל וְלִשְׁתּוֹת וְלִשְׂמֹחַ. אֶלָּא כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּהְיוּ פְּנוּיִין בַּתּוֹרָה וְחָכְמָתָהּ. וְלֹא יִהְיֶה לָהֶם נוֹגֵשׂ וּמְבַטֵּל.

    #2185107
    CS
    Participant

    Besalel- I’ve referred to that quote from the Rambam in other posts. Point being?

    #2185127
    motchah11
    Participant

    The Navi says that bi’ito achishenu,” “in it’s time I will hurry it up.” Chazal say that there are two ways we will be rescued from galus: “b’ito” and “achishenu.” It will be either one or the other. If we are zoicheh, we will be hurried out of galus and we will see open and great nissim. But if we are not zoicheh, it will be slow, as it says b’feirush in the NAvi, and there will be only hidden nissim.

    It seems to me that unless all Yidden do teshuvah we will be rescued from galus the slow way. And I cannot imagine all the Yidden in the world doing teshuvah. We will not be zoicheh to our houses or our shuls flying through the air to Eretz Yisrael. We will enter the slow way, as we are entering it now. Or else Hashem may kill 99% of us and declare the remainder tzadikim.

    Let us all hope and pray for a better geulah to come to us. But look at all the nevuos and midrashim about the geulah. Hard times are ahead of us. Have a good Shabbos!

    #2185106
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The most exciting thing I’ve learned recently is that I’ll be able to enter the Kodesh hakodoshim as long as I’m at that spiritual level, any day, when moshiach comes.

    I have always found claims like this to be very theologically troubling. Another example is the claim that when Moshiach comes the Yomim Tovim will be disestablished.

    My understanding is that the mitzvos are for all generations, including those after the arrival of Moshiach. Indeed, it is one of our ikkarim that the Torah will not be changed.

    I’m well aware that the origins of this belief (at least with regard to the Yomim Tovim) come from among our earliest rabbinic writing (the Midrash) and are spoken about by the Rishonim and Acharonim. And yet, I still have *serious* reservations about such lines of thought. We believe in the eternity of our Torah. There is nothing there that states that any of the mitzvos are due to be completely annulled at any future date.

    (I know, I know… I’m an apikorus for even having such doubts…)

    The Wolf

    #2185206
    tzadikgumor
    Participant

    love at least 3 things in this thread

    1, handle GodolHadofi
    2, branding of the third temple of BM3, very 21st century
    3, Ezekiel description being taken as mainstream views

    #2185217

    I am always amused by people being so much interested in the future things, Kabbalistic interpretations – anything that sounds good but can not be disproven. We have so many challenging things in the world that Hashem gave us _today_, where the mitzvos apply. Is He really wants us to spend time in speculation instead of addressing what he gave us?

    I suspect that people feel better when they get involved into something that is not verifiable. I am “learning Torah”, “learning about Moschiach” and see myself (and is seen by others) as a tzaddik and a masmid. Try doing something where there is an objective challenge, a test to pass, resistance to overcome, people to help… There is a huge difference between a surgeon who saves every patient and the one who just enjoys cutting people up. There should be same in other things.

    This was less of a problem in olden time, I think. Your neighbors saw you every day and knew who is real. In our days, it is easier to pretend ( I am not saying on purpose).

    #2185257
    Ysiegel
    Participant

    CS…chabad shlucha is here to give the Rebbe a bad name again…great…

    #2185325
    CS
    Participant

    Hi, I may not be as active for the next while, but will try to respond to posts when I’m on. A gutte voch from my locality.

    To Motcha: allow me to reframe your post:
    (Kalla teacher). Hi kalla. I heard that you’re very excited for your wedding and building your bayis neemon and that got me somewhat worried so I’m calling to set you straight. Let’s start with the wedding. You know, the one you’re dreaming of all day. Here’sa reality check: many families have disputes on at least something during the engagement period, so there’s likely to be hard feelings between them. Also, mothers in law are known not to like daughter in law, and she’s likely to offend you at the wedding, if not earlier. Did you know there’s been many chassanim who have had to miss most of their wedding because they got glass in their foot?

    And don’t get me started on after the wedding. The shana rishona is the hardest year of marriage. (Etc etc)

    Pregnancy? Morning sickness, no energy, you may need bed rest etc.

    Birth? You want to give birth??? Are you mad??? You could die!!

    #2185358
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Wolf is right.
    The Torah will not change as long the world exists.
    This is EXPLICITLY throughout the Torah and Tanach.
    It cannot be argued with. Anyone who says otherwise, even chazal, is either wrong or a misunderstanding.
    See Dvarim 30:1-10. And many other places. The Bris Torah is eternal and never will be annulled, not during the galus and not after geulah.
    All the Neviim, most importantly Moshe, said that after the final repentance and redemption, Yisrael will listen to the voice of Hashem and follow ALL the Mitzvos, Chukim etc.. that I commanded them TODAY, ALL as is written in THIS Book.
    There are literally DOZENS of EXPLICIT psukim to this effect.

    The Torah doesn’t change because of peoples imagination.

    The word “Olam” means Eternity and World.
    After this world is no longer the same world, meaning Olam haba, etc.. LITERALLY new heavens and new earth, is something else. But that is beyond what we have in the Torah itself. Ayin lo raasa.
    When the world no longer exists, we will worry about that.

    #2185496
    Menachem Shmei
    Participant

    Wolf, Bath,

    You are absolutely correct. Torah and mitzvos are eternal. As the Rambam writes (I just learned this in shlosha prokim):
    דבר ברור ומפורש בתורה שהיא מצוה עומדת לעולם ולעולמי עולמים אין לה לא שינוי כו’
    Or, as he writes in Hilchos Megilla, that all of Nach (except Megilla) will be nullified in Yemos Hamoshiach, whereas Chumash and all the halachos will exist forever
    הלכות של תורה שבעל פה שאינן בטלים לעולם

    The problem is that the idea of mitzvos being nullified in Yemos Hamoshiach is not the imagination of some overzealous messianists based on some vague midrashim, rather clear gemoros with halachic implications (not aggada).

    See Niddah 61b: מצוות בטלות לעתיד לבוא (regarding the halacha of בגד שאבד בו כלאים). See Tosfos there, and Rambam Hilchos Kilayim 10:25.
    See שדי חמד כללים מ’ ס”ק ריח for more examples.

    This seeming contradiction is something that Torah scholars have struggled with (though obviously in a respectful way. I am shocked by the audacity of Bath “Anyone who says otherwise, even chazal, is either wrong or a misunderstanding.” עפ”ל עפ”ל)

    Among others, Rav Elchanan Wasserman discusses this at length in Kovetz Shiurim (ח”ב סי’ ט) and proposes two answers.

    The Lubavitchers Rebbe as well has a brilliant pilpul on this sugya. See here: https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=59257&st=&pgnum=206

    Chas v’shalom to dismiss the words of chachamim. If we don’t understand, we must ask and learn.

    #2185529
    CS
    Participant

    The wolf brings up a good point which is echoed by bath tavath.

    According to what I’ve learned, there are several ways to reconcile, that will happen by geula.

    1) nowadays, we can’t overturn something that the Beis din of a previous era decided, because we’re not at that level. For example, we’re not supposed to take medication on shabbos (unless it’s a prescription that’s stated before/ the person is incapacitated) because they used to grind the medicine, which is forbidden on shabbos. Although we no longer grind our medication, the prohibition still holds because we can’t overturn it because we’re not as great.

    However when moshiach comes, and techias hameisim happens, we will have the greatest minds of all times so we’ll be able to review everything Halachically according to the new circumstances. Hence we will rule according to Beis Shamai etc.

    2) when chazal say, “Mitzvos betailos leosid lavo “ This means that the command will be nullified, but we will still keep the mitzvos because they connect us to Hashem. This is why we may bury the dead in shatnez although they will have techias hameisim and will be wearing shatnez- because there will be no aveira because the Mitzvah is botul, but they will change their clothing ASAP from their own will.

    3) with regards to Yomim Tovim, we will still keep them, but the kedusha they generate will be batul,
    nullified, compared to the tremendous light of the geula (besides for Chanukah, Purim, Pesach as the source of geula, which will be significant even then)

    #2185525
    CS
    Participant

    Motcha, the point of my previous post is to emphasize that this is totally the wrong attitude. The Rebbe educated us about moshiach in a way of how exciting it is, how every Jew will be included, how it s the best thing for us bgashmius uvruchnius etc. Learning about moshiach and geula from this angle helps us to be truly excited and anticipate his coming.

    Motchas depiction is very negative. One who thinks of the geula in this way will definitely find it hard to look forward to Moshiach’s coming. Just like we wouldn’t speak to a kalla in a realistic but negative way about her upcoming marriage etc, so too with geula.

    That being said, the Frierdiker Rebbe referred to the Holocaust as chevlai moshiach, so hopefully we’re past that already and can just look towards the positives. And even if there would be a price to pay, if we know all the particles it outweighs the negatives, and we want moshiach nonetheless….

    #2185530
    CS
    Participant

    AAQ I’m not sure what your latest post was in response to so not sure how to respond…

    #2185532
    CS
    Participant

    Ysiegel (very possible we’ve met in person) I’m not sure what you’re writing in response to. If quoting the Rebbe/ following The Rebbes directives to learn about inyonei geula umoshiach, and share with others, in order to be excited for the geula, is shameful to you, maybe find a rebbe/ rosh yeshiva that you’re not embarrassed by…

    #2185541
    CS
    Participant

    Anyhow, my point with this thread was to share and learn more about the geula so we can all increase our anticipation for Moshiach’s coming (as the Rambam says this is a must to be considered a maamin.) so far I think I’ve shared 5 things to be excited about, and I haven’t heard even one from anyone else. Would love to hear others thoughts

    #2185549
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    CS,

    You seem to heave a great deal of time on your hands. What is your occupation?

    #2185547
    CS
    Participant

    *positives

    #2185598
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    However when moshiach comes, and techias hameisim happens, we will have the greatest minds of all times so we’ll be able to review everything Halachically according to the new circumstances. Hence we will rule according to Beis Shamai etc.

    The greatest minds of all time do not have the power to completely nullify a Torah commandment.

    The Wolf

    #2185600
    CS
    Participant

    Gadolhadofi you can guess (hint 1: when you limit your news consumption to one site, you have more time.)

    #2185621
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    CS,

    If you’re in shlichus I’m a bit surprised since the shluchim I know work day and night on behalf of their “localities” with no time to post regarding Chabad ideology.

    #2185639
    CS
    Participant

    You’re right, there’s a reason I haven’t posted in 4 years

    #2185641
    CS
    Participant

    Although there is time to wind down, for me at least, but I guess if no one’s sharing anything interesting here, I’m better off learning from the sources… gnite

    #2185657
    jackk
    Participant

    Cs,

    Many jews do not need to learn new possibilities of the geulah to get excited and yearn for it.
    We simply have kavanna while davening, benching and even counting sefiras haomer.
    We also have kavanna during the 4 fast days and 3 weeks.
    Learning Seder kodashim and all the parshiyos of vayikra can also increase the yearning.
    Even pondering the daily chilul Hashem that exists due to no Geulah is a strong motivation.

    #2185686
    maskildoresh
    Participant

    I don’t think I have ever seen any source that refer to being able to see Hash-m.

    The highest Malachim say “Ayei Mikom Kivodo”.
    The Chayai Hakodesh are Ratzo Vishov.

    Being able to sense the Kavod is a different concept. (Har Sinai -Umaareh Kivod Hash-m K’Eish Ocheles etc”

    Not sure what you write is accurate at all or even possibly acceptable

    #2185720
    CS
    Participant

    The Wolf
    “The greatest minds of all time do not have the power to completely nullify a Torah commandment.

    The Wolf”

    Correct. However we may come to a different understanding of the practical fulfillment of the Mitzvah (think beis shamai vs. beis Hillel)

    #2185719
    CS
    Participant

    Maskil doresh:
    כוְנָתַ֨ן לָכֶ֧ם אֲדֹנָ֛י לֶ֥חֶם צַ֖ר וּמַ֣יִם לָ֑חַץ וְלֹֽא־יִכָּנֵ֥ף עוֹד֙ מוֹרֶ֔יךָ וְהָי֥וּ עֵינֶ֖יךָ רֹא֥וֹת אֶת־מוֹרֶֽיךָ:
    לחם צר ומים לחץ: לא תהיו כרוכים אחר תענוגים כאשר אתם עתה כמה שנאמר השותים במזרקי יין (עמוס ו׳:ו׳) הנה ששון ושמחה (לעיל כב):
    ולא יכנף: לא יתכסה ממך בכנף בגדיו כלומר לא יסתיר ממך פניו:
    מוריך: הקב”ה המלמדך להועיל:

    This is yeshaya 30:20 with Rashi. Chassidus discusses this at length in many maamarim

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