- This topic has 53 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 7 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’ve been wanting to post this for a few years. My parents are baalei teshuvah so a lot of things we still figure out on our own. One thing I never understood was Pesach Cleaning. I feel like EVERYONE just blows it up!!! Like seriously, each kid cleans his own room, and you guys pick up, sweep, mop, and wipe down the furniture in the living room and then do the kitchen…
What is the rest of the world doing that takes 4 weeks? I have NO IDEA!
And pesach food? Really. I mean I guess it’s hard cuz its like 2 yuntivs but you seriously don’t need 20 dishes. Meat, fish, lots of salads, dairy.
I mean they say nowadays that half your meal should be a salad and your main should be like a piece of fish, meat, or 1 cupr of pasta. Is it really that hard not to have grains? Get creative! Teach your kids healthy eating! Gosh you people make NO SENSE!
Shopping,
As a BT myself, I hear a lot of what you’re saying. But think of the other side.
It says that chometz “should not be seen or found” during Pesach. That means you if you can’t see it, you could still not find it (like behind the closet or in a box closed 364 days a year, etc. This is the reason why people have taken to doing “spring cleaning” in addition to Pesach cleaning. It is very important for those people to know the difference. I have spent the last 6 weeks really cleaning my house, throwing out a lot of stuff and getting more organized. Most of the year we’re just busy dealing with the day-to-day stuff, so these things get put to the back burner. Before Succos no one has time because it’s R’H and Y’K before, so Pesach works out to be a good time to deal with a lot of this stuff.
For families that have a lot of primarily small children, there is no way for them to tell the children to “clean up their room”. The mother has to do it. She obviously cannot clean everything at the same time, so some areas start earlier than others to give time to get to everything. The challenge then is to keep the children from undoing the work she already did by bringing their Purim treats, Shabbos snacks, etc, back into the rooms already clean. Kitchen is almost always saved for last, but that can also be start earlier just to keep the rhythm of the house on an even keel, especially if the mother is working and cannot do major Pesach all at one time plus keep her kids fed normal meals and have clean clothes available for the whole family.
As far as the meals, it says “ain simcha ela basar v’yayin” Chol Hamoed is really a YT day, just we are allowed to do things on it that we can’t do on Shabbos or YT, but we still are not allowed to degrade it. Most people have a custom and perhaps it is actually halacha (the more knowledgeable people here in the CR will probably clarify) to have a festive meal, like you would on Shabbos or YT, on Chol Hamoed. If you only eat salad and a main dish and one side on Shabbos, then you’re good to go with what you suggested. Many people even wash twice a day during Chol Hamoed. Since family is together a lot during the whole YT, more fancy sitdown meals are very customary. Many people buy only the bare basic products from the stores, like sugar, oil, vinegar and such. EVERYTHING else is made by hand. I have a friend who makes her own potato starch. It takes much more time if you don’t even have “second-level” products that you can purchase from the store. We often have soup, a few salads (make big amount for YT and they last a day or two of Chol HaMoed), main dish with something on the side and dessert. I don’t think it’s too “unhealthy”. I’m lucky because I do buy things from the stores but things take much longer during Pesach due to not being familiar with where things are, etc, after having brought all of my Pesach pots/dishes into the kitchen.
I hope you enjoy your holiday.
Somewhere along the line people confused spring clearing with Pesach . And, as with all things, chumrah come into play.
Shopping, maybe the best way to find out what people are doing for 4 (or 6) weeks preparing for Pesach, is to move in with a family that does so for the duration. I’m sure you will learn a lot.
Nechumah, “most” people make things like potato starch by hand? Maybe in your circle of friends but I know of nobody who does. Who has the time?
By the way, can everyone in the CR dispense with the anti-hotel rants? Hotels are not for everybody, both from an hashkafic and cost perspective, and that’s fine. Just please don’t rain on someone else’s simcha because it’s not your way.
Always the unpleasant cynic.
Many women (maybe a rare man as well) find fulfillment, satisfaction, and Simchas Mitzvah in cleaning their Bais HaMikdosh for Pesach.
In addition to, and maybe somewhat because of, the incredible tirchah.
Yes, all of it isn’t strictly necessary. Yes some of the cleaning is “merely” Hiddur Mitzvah and chumra and Fear and Love.
By the way, can everyone in the CR dispense with the anti-hotel rants? Hotels are not for everybody, both from an hashkafic and cost perspective, and that’s fine. Just please don’t rain on someone else’s simcha because it’s not your way.
i will dispense with it when i dispense with everything else that i strongly believe is chipping away at the very foundation of our connection to Hashem and the yomim tovim. Sorry. I know there are exceptions to this, as well as to everything else, and *some* exceptions are reminiscent of the old tv argument “how can you say tv is bad when the public channel has so many educational shows”.
Gd forbid I would be commenting because it “isn’t my way”. Can’t speak for others but that would never be a legitimate excuse to rant.
The Hotels are a unintended consequence of the massive OCD on pesach
people just decide with all the cleaning and cooking and being overworked, its just easier to pay to go to a hotel. Perhaps if the OCD on preparing for pesach was loosend a bit, less people would go to a hotel
I am extremely opposed to a “hotel” Pesach. Very much like Syag.
Nevertheless this year I will be in a hotel for the entire Pesach.
Halacha is not uncomplex
Mr Less it is clear you are personally threatened by seeing others Love for Hashem.
You shouldn’t be. Don’t worry. You will receive exactly that Eternal Olam HaBoh that you have created for yourself here.
Or perhaps, that’s what you’re afraid of.
The Hotels are a unintended consequence of the massive OCD on pesach
That does happen. Probably more often, Pesach hotel vacations are a consequence of our descent into rampant gashmius.
this year I will be in a hotel for the entire Pesach
Oh good, now I can look down at you.
Pesach hotel vacations are a consequence of our descent into rampant gashmius.
While some people do go away for Succahs, its not as a massive scale as Pesach. its because Peseach has become too hard to make at home for many
Shopping613,
I feel like EVERYONE just blows it up!!! Like seriously, each kid cleans his own room, and you guys pick up, sweep, mop, and wipe down the furniture in the living room and then do the kitchen…
What is the rest of the world doing that takes 4 weeks? I have NO IDEA!
They are cleaning rooms, picking up, sweeping, mopping, wiping down the furniture in the living room and then doing the kitchen… 🙂 It’s wonderful that your family can do all of that in one week, but for my family, to try and complete those tasks in the span of one week would be extremely stressful. Better 3-4 weeks of methodical work than one week of panic.
And pesach food? Really. I mean I guess it’s hard cuz its like 2 yuntivs but you seriously don’t need 20 dishes. Meat, fish, lots of salads, dairy.
We keep things simple as you describe, but it is still a lot to cook!
lesschumras,
Nechumah, “most” people make things like potato starch by hand? Maybe in your circle of friends but I know of nobody who does. Who has the time?
Nechomah wrote, “I have a friend who makes her own potato starch.”
How did “a friend” turn into “most” people?
zahavasdad,
While some people do go away for Succahs, its not as a massive scale as Pesach. its because Peseach has become too hard to make at home for many
I actually think more people would spend Succos at hotels too if it weren’t for one teeny little detail: you have to eat in a sukkah on Sukkos.
People also go on exotic tours and cruises, buy luxury cars and homes, and eat in $400 per meal restaurants, and none of that helps clean for Pesach.
Frankly, if my budget (and lifestyle) allowed me one expensive vacation per year, why wouldn’t I do it on Pesach already?
I don’t entirely disagree with you, though.
A baalas teshuvah once spent an entire Pesach with us because she was too nervous that she couldn’t clean her apartment properly.
“its because Peseach has become too hard to make at home for many”
My in-laws go away to a hotel because it is too hard for them to properly clean the house the way their children and grandchildren expect it to be cleaned (ZD calls it OCD – I call it stupidity). They cant move the furniture, climb to the very top of the book cases or reach the top level of the chandelier (all of which has become a de facto requirement these days because of – I dont know, but it cant be love of the mitzvah with all the complaining that goes on about it!), so, they pack up and go to a hotel. This way, their grandchildren wont think of them as lax in their observance (sad).
“Pesach hotel vacations are a consequence of our descent into rampant gashmius.”
i spent 6 years as a Mashgiach in many different hotels throughout the USA & i can personally tell you its all about gashmius & takes away the kedusha of yom tov. the food is 24-7 the programs are 24-7 etc…. totally lowering the kedusha of yom tov.
& with all i enjoyed each year in hotels i can still tell you “there is still nothing like making Pesach at home”
I actually think more people would spend Succos at hotels too if it weren’t for one teeny little detail: you have to eat in a sukkah on Sukkos.
The Hotels could easily build a succah, many already have outdoor gazeebos and could turn them into succahs.
In fact in Brooklyn or Manhattan for many eating in a succah is actually not so easy as they live in Apartments and there arent open spaces to put them
(Some put them on balconies or Roofs if they are allowed) and in Williamsburg Ive seen them on the Sidewalk, but for many a Succah is not really possible
Just for the record, I am not going to a hotel for Pesach and have never gone to a hotel for Pesach
In the 1950s our family went to a hotel every Pesach. Why? because my grandparents didn’t have the room to host the entire family in their 3 room Brooklyn apartment. In those days there were no special concerts and events, just sedarim, food, shul and simple sports in the country.
By 1960 my grandparents would come to my parent’s large home in CT and we never went to a hotel again.
Our home is quite large (17 rooms) and has many amenities of the hotels: separate Pesach kitchen, swimming pool, tennis and bb courts, hot tub, recreation room and home theatre and acreage. Our relatives love coming to our hotel for Pesach.
Do you accept guests from people on the Internet for Pesach?
Im going to your house
zahavasdad,
The Hotels could easily build a succah, many already have outdoor gazeebos and could turn them into succahs.
Yes they could, but why would people put so much money into spending Sukkos in a crowded hotel sukkah? Spending Pesach in a hotel makes more sense. I agree with DaasYochid’s assessment as to the reasons. The challenge of cleaning for Pesach is one factor among many others.
Just for the record, I am not going to a hotel for Pesach and have never gone to a hotel for Pesach
Same here.
Shopping6, I understand your puzzlement. Some of it comes from your having a hard time putting yourself into other people’s shoes. As someone already mentioned to you, in a family with, let’s say, 4 children and the oldest is 6, the mother is the one cleaning all the bedrooms. And trying desperately to keep the one and two year olds from sprinkling cheerios and pretzel crumbs all over the freshly cleaned carpets and furniture. And in a family with 4 teenage boys and 2 sons-in-law coming for Yom Tov, there’s going to have to be a well-stocked fridge and freezer and no amount of kugel will manage to satisfy them all. Every family is dealing with their own set of circumstances the best way they can. For many women, it’s a pleasure to sit down at a beautifully set Seder table in a gleaming house. And for others, just providing the requisite karpas, maror, charoses and a very abbreviated shulchan orech has sapped all their kochos to the limit.
It’s beautiful and amazing to see that 2,000 years after Yetzias Mitzrayim we’re all doing our utmost to fulfill “Tashbisu se’or mibateichem” and to pass on to our children sippur yetzias mitzrayim while observing the Mitzvos of Pesach, as a privilege and a joy. All of us to the best of our ability.
(I would tell DY though, that if I could afford one expensive vacation, I would take it AFTER spending Pesach in my own home. But that’s just me….)
if I could afford one expensive vacation, I would take it AFTER spending Pesach in my own home. But that’s just me….
me too!!
my kids really live on pure chometz. i find feeding them on pesach to be a huge challenge, they are always hungry and the things they can eat are very expensive. That is one reason why i dont “turn over” my kitchen any earlier than needed. I also hate using frozen food for a yom tov or shabbos meal (my own schtick) and have always served fresh so even if i had a pesach kitchen, and even if i was physically capable of cooking early, i dont think i could bring myself to cook and freeze yom tov foods.
The only things i have ever been able to do to ease the pressure “early” are to vacuum out all rooms besides the kitchen and living room/dining room so that i know that is “all” i have left to do. and i never gave my toddlers cheerios, i know im limited on time and energy so we were proactive in that way. we gave them sugar cubes as snacks. totally pesachdik and if it gets stuck in the couch, well, it wont be there for long.
Alot of the hotels that are offered are not really such exotic locale. NJ isnt exactly on my list of places I want to go. People who go to Hotels locals to NYC are not going for a fancy vacation, they are going to avoid cooking and cleaning
(I would tell DY though, that if I could afford one expensive vacation, I would take it AFTER spending Pesach in my own home. But that’s just me….)
If take my my fantasy budget, you have to take my fantasy lifestyle as well…
I actually did once spend (part of) Pesach in a hotel, and definitely agree that there’s no place like home.
As a mashgiach in a pesach hotel for 3 years, MAs assessment is right on target. My “favorite” memory of those years is the almost lynching of one of the other mashgichim who delayed the opening of the tea room by 10 minutes because of a kashrus concern. This is less than 30 minutes after birchas hamazon of a 4 course meal with 3 options at each course, which followed on the heels of a kiddush after davening that rivaled the seudas achashveirosh.
“It’s beautiful and amazing to see that 2,000 years after Yetzias Mitzrayim we’re all doing our utmost to fulfill “Tashbisu se’or mibateichem” and to pass on to our children sippur yetzias mitzrayim while observing the Mitzvos of Pesach, as a privilege and a joy. All of us to the best of our ability.”
Golfer. It gives me such an uplifting Nachas and Simcha to hear such words “spoken” by a twenty-first century Bas Yisroel.
I have no doubt in Shomayim as well!
“Do you accept guests from people on the Internet for Pesach?
Im going to your house”
Lawyer, I’d come too, (with my whole chad gadya) but my husband doesn’t ‘mish’.
Yep, shopping, what you describe is what goes on at my house. Like, we cook a lot, but cleaning is each of us responsible for our rooms, cleaning out pockets, bags, etc; everyone takes two days to vacuum the whole house, wash the floors in the dining room and kitchen, check cabinets and corners; turn over the kitchen. If my mom wants to do spring cleaning, we do that also, but it’s not a huge deal and not emphasized.
And then we go to the hotel, because I just like to annoy everyone on here. (We’re home for part of Pesach with guests, which is why we turn over the kitchen.)
Shopping, can you clue me in? Who is the ‘Someone Normal’ logged in???
Zahavasdad
Shopping 613
Queen…………..
You’d all be welcome.
You house sounds nicer than the Jerusalem Waldorf Astoria
zahavasdad………
Thank you.
Mrs. CTLawyer is a designer builder and our home is her portfolio. The original hose is from 1803 with a major 1903 addition and a 1999-2003 addition. I have added on a couple rooms since then.
We don’t often take vacations, our home is where we want to spend time with our family and guests…we’ve already seen the world.
CTLawyer, I love architecture, it’s wonderful that your wife was able to build her original design for you to live in. Sounds like a dream I would put on my ‘wishlist’.
Nechomoh – “As far as the meals, it says “ain simcha ela basar v’yayin” “
Do you have a Mekor for those exact words? (please note the pedantry in the question). Rishonim, early Achronim or well known Poskim only please.
Well, since I’m not so familiar with the texts, I always hesitate to quote things. I felt that this was such a well known inyan from where I come from that I could use the quotes a bit loosely. Since you asked, I spoke to my husband and he says it comes from Pesachim 109, amud 1. I looked further in Mishna Breurah. I know that it is not halacha to have these things, but there is definitely an inyan and, like I said, I know people who wash twice a day.
Interestingly, in Mishnah Breurah, on the last page of chelek 5, it speaks about eating and drinking and mentions there meat and wine. I looked further for the explanation about the work “drink” and it says that even a person who is a ba’al teshuva and took it upon himself not to drink wine and eat meat for the other days of the year, on Shabbos, Yom Tov, Chanukah and Purim, he must eat and drink (and since the Mechaber speaks about meat and wine, then the Mishna Breurah is also speaking about them because obviously he will eat and drink other types of food on those days mentioned).
So, again, I apologize for quoting something not correctly. I will try even harder to avoid this in the future. Just as a last note, my husband did mention that the meat that the Gemara is speaking about is meat from korbonos, presumably the permissible parts of the ones that were brought when they came aliyah le’regel, like the chagigah and all the other ones that a regular person has a part that he can eat. Nowadays, since we do not have korbonos since there is no Beis HaMikdosh, then we are mesameach on wine.
I think its actually Ain Simcha Ala Besar, Dag V’ Yallin
Queen………
My wife reached her height of recognition in 2009 when the house was rented for the filming of a movie.
I’ll not mention the name to preserve our privacy. But many (not frum Yidden) who know us from our town and saw the film, remarked about it in local media.
Lawyer, that is very impressive. I’d love to see the part of the film that shows the house.
My wife reached her height of recognition in 2009 when the house was rented for the filming of a movie. I assume ctlawyer, that this was a movie about Birkas haChamo?
Hi Nechomah – I hope it won’t embarrass you or sound patronising (you can put a Z in there if you want) but that’s really amazing of you to go and do all the research.
Your husband is correct, the Gemoro there (see Tosfos) is talking about Besar Shlomim. That said, tell him to see tur and Beis Yosef who shtell Tzu to Bossor on Shabbos which is a really interesting Tzu Shtell since Lechora they are two totally different Mitzvos (Taynug vs. Simchoh).
In Rambam shteit that “Ein Simchoh Eloh B’Bossor V’EIN SIMCHOH ELOH b’yAYIN” and the Nosei keilim go to town on what Pshat is. See Binyan tzion and Prishoh.
L’maaseh it seems the Halocho is not klohr though as you bring from the MB, people should be drinking a reviis Yayin even on Chol hamoed. maybe one can be melamud Zechus that for someone who drinking would damage, its lo goruah from any other Mitzvos assay where one doesn’t need to injure oneself to be mekayem (except 4 Kosos – see Gemoro).
Anyway, sorry, I wasn’t having a go – this is just a pet topic of mine! People quote it like you did where I am from as well and it always brings out the pedant in me.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.