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oomis: that is a good point. Leah did always feel second best, and Yaakov did always love Rochel more, and loved her kids more as well.
Calee
do you like him or do you like that other girls like him. Only the first will spell a happy marriage the second a disaster. Also girls generally flirt with guys that send out vibes that he’s accepting flirting, I think that’s something you may want to think about….. Do you want a guy who will adore you or who will b ate acing attention from other females?Think first
“Also girls generally flirt with guys that send out vibes that he’s accepting flirting”
Not true. Girls who are flirtatious will flirt with a guy they find “cute” even if he sends no flirtatious signs. Please refrain from making things up. especially since you could be ruining a shidduch here and making a girl think a great guy is not as great as he is based on nothing.
Chemistry is tafel.
Look at your compatibility, shared goals in life, hashkafot, and finances.
I hope you realize that what mercury is saying happened to her is NOT what you’re saying at all. Don’t be mislead.
Think first:
Also, the guy sees the messages being sent his way.If he somehow picks up that his date finds it cool that girls like him, he will respond accordingly.(Yes, he will definitely pick up on those subtle messages.) She’ll need to be careful not to send wrong messages…
Caleefornia, I don’t have any specific advice, because I don’t know what the right thing for you to do is. But I thought I’d mention that in my experience, when young people are dating, it does sometimes happen that a girl will be attracted to a guy, but then when she finds out that he really likes her, then all of the sudden she’s not attracted anymore.
I don’t know what the psychological mechanism is, but it’s a thing that happens sometimes. Part of it may be that women feel attracted to confident men who don’t seem to care about them — there are actually even (non-frum and perhaps quite wicked!) relationship columnists who tell men to be reserved with women (dates, girlfriends or wives) and to not give them too much affection or attention because that will turn them off.
Anyway, when this kind of thing happens, I don’t think it’s a sign that the relationship will or won’t work out. You just have to wait and see how you feel.
Think First, I don’t know if I would read to much into Caleefornia’s use of the word “flirting.” Flirting is in the eyes of the beholder. One person’s flirting is another person’s talking or being normal. Some people refer to it as flirting whenever a girl talks to a guy at all and happens to smile.
yytz:
Great post. All of it
Ask yourself, when you are not with him, do you look forward to being with him again?
C – I had a similar situation before I got engaged in that I did not feel “chemistry” with the man I was dating. We seemed to have a lot in common and similar goals and all that. I wasn’t sure he was “the one”, but it seemed to be. I did make sure that I was not “unattracted” to him, but I did not feel any particular chemistry. He told me to make sure if I had any issues then we should discuss them on our next date. I spoke to someone I’m close to, who told me that it seemed like we were ready to close things. Boy, that came as such a shock, since I hadn’t really realized how far along things were, but looking back, it should have been obvious. Now on our 7th date – which was after about 6 weeks, I realized what he was thinking and he was basically just waiting for me to be on the same page. It gave me a bit of a rush and I realized that I just needed to commit. I did and we got engaged. The next week, when I realized what kind of commitment we had just made to each other, it was such a powerful aphrodisiac as it were that all of the chemistry I hadn’t been feeling came on in a big rush. It felt much better at that point. Probably the fact that we weren’t committed to each other yet had held me back from feeling those feelings, which I probably subconsciously had been keeping myself from feeling out of some fear of rejection and then when I was no longer being rejected, they were able to come to the surface.
Hatzlacha with making your decision.
Nechomoh- I don’t think this is the same situation. I think there is a connection going on here- I mean she is excited to see him. I say ask a dating mentor because none of us know her properly.
It is normal to be hesitant about who you are going to be with for the rest of your life based on meeting this person for a few times for such a relatively short period of time! It is a great compliment to you that he wants to commit-many girls have the opposite problem! This is a huge decision, and no one should be allowed to force you until you feel ready. What many rabbonim say is that it is a good idea to take a break-and then evaluate how you feel. Years ago, I was in your exact same position and we took a break. While I was alone I asked myself a simple question-could I see myself without him in my life? My being without him made me realize his qualities which led me to realize that he is THE ONE, and here we are married 29 years. Looking back, I realize that all of the nisyonos that we were challenged with, and all of the crazy circumstances thrown our way, I am truly grateful to Hashem that He sent me such a capable partner. So if this fellow is a capable strong and intelligent and frum young man GRAB this opportunity! (They are a dying breed).
I will disagree here with most, Why rush. Seriosuly it isnt like a Bag or a pair of shoes that if you dont like you can just return.
Dont feel rushed, take your time and if you dont feel it there is no need to buy there merchandise. It doesnt matter if he is a nice guy or not. He could be a great guy, just not a guy for you.
Most of the stories posted here are people who werent sure, but married anyway and are happy. I doubt you will get too many stories from people here who didnt know and married anyway and found out later it was the wrong decision.
ZD – I could not agree more.
Real talk – Dating mentors cannot make someone feel something they don’t feel. Either she is feeling something or she is not. It is too soon to tell, apparently, and she should not rush just because HE is ready.
I think the OP already knows the answer but is afraid to face it. I personally think that she should call it off. His great middos, makes her laugh sometimes, etc. is all havel by the mention of one statement: “At times I am attracted to him, at times not.”
This man may be the greatest person in the world, but if you are sometimes not attracted to him then everything else means nothing. The times that you are attracted maybe forced.
The guy has to be told/taught to play a little hard to get. He’s too eager and too available, that puts her off. The minute he will be cooler, she will feel more attracted. Someone needs to explain this to him, doesn’t the shadchan understand what makes a woman tick?
RT – I think my situation was very similar. I did not say that I “felt nothing”, I said that I “did not feel chemistry”. I was also excited to see this person I was dating. I just took having a commitment with him for me to “feel chemistry”.
This feeling that you mention: “i’m more excited for my friends’ weddings than my own!” to me sounds like a red flag. I know that feeling and it’s a terrible feeling to have. Would you say that you also feel this “I feel like everyone at my wedding will be happy and I’ll just feel like whatever – not happy not sad, just whatever.”?
Please don’t take advice from strangers off the Internet. I wasn’t all that excited about my wedding- more like i was terrified- and neither am i sure what anyone means when they say ‘chemistry’ but i spent my entire engagement asking married people if how foolish it was that i logically knew he was the One but i didnt feel what i imagined to be chemistry. I dont recommend you do the same but somehow I was blessed with the most incredible husband who is perfect for me in every way thank God, bli ayin hara(!!!). if I would’ve explained my fears on an anonymous forum it’s not a question that I would have been recommended to break it off chas veshalom.
My advice? Ask someone you actually trust who knows you. This is the single most crucial decision of your life and you don’t want to make the wrong choice because some well-meaning nobodies on a blog told you so.
If you feel like you’d be marrying your brother or a roommate, run. Both can be great people but you don’t want to marry them.
Interjection – B “H a million times that everything worked out so well for you. Being scared is not the same as feeling nothing. You say you knew he was The One. That is not what this young lady has said. Everybody is different, and what was good for you might not be for someone else. We are not just “well-meaning nobodies on a blog,” (and btw, I take exception to that description, as you have no idea who posts on this blog, including rabbonim, social workers, psychologists, and people who have BTDT). We come from a variety of experiences and backgrounds, and perhaps have a better handle on giving sound advice, than that with which you credit us.
My personal feeling is that this young lady should probably not make a commitment to this guy until she feels comfortable doing so. She is not remotely on the same page as he, and should not be rushed into something by well-meaning parents and shadchanim. He might be the perfect guy for her, but she might not be the perfect girl for him if she feels nothing for him, and he deserves to be with someone who totally wants to be with him. May we hear good news from these two people b’korov.
People sometimes have doubts and are not sure what to do. Part of them wants the person, and part of them feels that there might be someone better. In this situation, one needs time to let it grow and see how you feel. It’s hard to do with a lot of pressure. It’s good to communicate with each other, feelings and thoughts. Let him know you like him, but you need time. If they like you enough, they’ll stay. Also, think carefully about it, but don’t over analyze. IY’H you will figure it out. And pray for clarity.
Caleefornia- Sometimes when someone comes on ‘too strong’, it can feel smothering, and since you mentioned that you felt more of an attraction before he was so persistent, perhaps that could be the reason. I think you should ask yourself what it is, specifically, that you don’t like about him. And like some of the posters mentioned, how would you feel if you never saw him again? Try to gain more clarity on your doubts to help you know better if it’s just ‘cold feet’ on your part, or is there some midda about him you don’t like. Then you can ask yourself, if this is a midda you can live with….or not.
I was in a very similar situation when I was dating my spouse. I was sure about everything, but very unsure about the chemistry. I spoke to the Shadchan about it. The shadchan was someone I knew very well (and still know to this day) to be a true talmid Chacham and tzaddik (yes, i was very fortunate to have such an individual for my shadchan). He told me that the Chazon Ish said that regarding chemistry the litmus test is as follows: if you would be in one room and the person you’re dating in the room next to that, would you feel like going over and talking to them? if the answer is yes, then that is enough chemistry to be able to get married.
Hashem helped me to have a situation like this on our final date, which i had already decided was either going to be the point that I would call it off or express that I wanted to get engaged.
I alighted from a cab and saw my spouse standing and waiting on the other side of a busy main road. I saw her but she did not see me. So, I quickly went behind a building and asked myself, “Do you feel like going over to her and talking to her?” The immediate answer that came from within me was a yes. It was not a resounding yes. It was not a fireworks yes. It wasn’t even a loud yes. But firm it was. We got engaged that night and are now in our ninth year of a, baruch Hashem, very happy marriage. Certainly not a breezy marriage (is there anyone in the world that has a breezy marriage???). We have both worked very hard, and continue to do so, to make our marriage a happy one. And from everything I have ever read, heard, or seen there is no such thing as a happy marriage without that ongoing, hard work.
As in interesting aside, but perhaps not so much of an aside, is that my brother expressed his utter amazement the night we got engaged that I was so calm. “Most people are really nervous when they get engaged because they are constantly wondering if this is really the right one!” is what my brother said to me. I told him that the reason I wasn’t feeling nervous at all (and I really didn’t feel nervous, not then and not at any point after that), is that I know that Hashem wants me to get married so that I can fulfill His Will through the upholding of all the mitzvos that are associated with marriage, and I did my best to choose my spouse based on that understanding, and I followed daas Torah regarding how to proceed. So what reason could there be to be nervous?
Every young man and woman need to ask themselves, “What is my primary reason for wanting to get married?”
Is it primarily to facilitate fulfillment of self or fulfillment of the Will of Hashem?
When you frame the issue that way, then your assessment of the issues involved automatically adjusts accordingly.
in EY: You are aware, that the chazon ish was speaking to people who have a much different dating system than do we. It is obvious that nobody is going to feel chemistry after 2 dates, which is when the community he is speaking to is thinking of getting engaged.
And correspondingly, the absence of chemistry after 2 dates does not signal anything wrong with the relationship, so the only question then is if you are willing to jump in knowing very little–which the chazon ish’s community was accustomed to.
I think it is very different in our system (depending on the who “our” is), where we date for a more extended period, and the expectation is that you are developing a relationship before the engagement. In such a system, I personally think the absence of chemistry is notable, since I would expect it to develop.
I personally once dated someone for an extended period of time, and ultimately broke up for this reason, and I don’t regret it at all.
But not all situations are the same. Sometimes it can just be that the couple doesn’t really know how to act towards each other in a way that will develop a relationship, and that is why there is nothing. So I’m not comfortable giving advice on this.
California,
What did I u end up deciding?
cuz that wasn’t yentish 🙂
Come on, once a person posts their personal problems on yw coffee room than we’re entitled to follow up!
why? 🙂 (boy am I glad noone followed up on some of MY posts!)
Not everyone gets swept off their feet! If its not your personality to get all bubbly and googoo gagaga you wont! If you need more time and are feeling pressured by your surroundings make sure you are making a mindful decision and not a pressured one. If your only doubt is that your not head over heals , girrrrl, he must be a great guy!
pou_bear- true, not everyone gets swept off their feet, but if she hasn’t been dating for a long time yet than we can’t know if it’s just her not being the excitable type or him not being exciting enough. If she’s dating for a few years already and hasn’t met anyone that got her excited even though on paper everything looked good, than maybe she should go ahead anyhow.
MAZEL TOV!!!!!!! GREAT NEWS!!!
Mazal tov!!!
May you be zoche to build a true bayis ne’eman beyisrael!
boruch Hashem! Mazel tov!!
Wow!! Mazal Tov!!
Such good news:)
You should be zoche to build a bayis neeman beyisrael!
Huge Mazel Tov!!! Are you going to post an invitation to the wedding here? JK…
Mazel Tov!!
Mazel tov. May you be zochim to build a B”NB.
Mazel Tov!!
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