Every Yids a safek mamzer

Safek mamzer is mutar either way

Menachem: I appreciate your brief demonstration on why european-style yeshiva learning misses the mark. don’t lose your head.

menachem – there is something wrong about your nusach, ‘based on halocha’. I think you mean that for Halachic purposes, or somethnig like that?
Either way, we rely on it even for when we don’t usually rely on rov, like אין הולכין בבמון אחר הרוב and also we can kill based on this, otherwise if you were mezane with your father’s ex wife or his sister, you could would still be killed. We
I think the achronim say that once it is paskened for other issues, we then use it for everything.
either way, the whole issue is only really halachic. Statistically the probabilty that you are a mamzer is almost 0, You rely on that sort of probabilty to fly airplanes without worrying you are going to die. so the whole shaila is only in Halacha, and in Halacha anyway we rely on the Rov, so really it’s quite theoretical.

For practical purposes you can check the DNA, nowadays many poskim trust DNA testing to a large extent. Ask your local OR. But even if you have proof that your father is indeed your father, you still can allow yourself the pleasure of speculating that you are a mamzer – maybe your grandmother was mezaneh, or one of your great great grandmothers….

coffee (and cheescake) addict: even though Menachem’s mother has a chezkas Kashrus, and she no doubt deserves her kesuba, it still does not mean that Menachem is not a Mamzer – maybe she was raped b’oines, in which case she would still qualify for kesuba but Menachem would be a mamzer if he was conceived from the rapist.

Every yids a big Choosid

GotAGoodPoint: If Halachicly there’s no basis to declare a child a mamzer, but a DNA test says that the child was fathered by the next door neighbor and not the husband, then Halachicly the child is still kosher.

> sofek mamzer is worse off than a known mamzer.

if everyone is sofek mamzer, then nobody can marry nobody, except those who are mamzerim vadai. In such, invesrted, world, hasan and kalla would need to bring kosher witnesses to certify that their parents were brother and sister, or bring a ketuba with other than a father’s name, and beis din need to investigate date of kesuba being before the birth. I am sure, there will be fakers, who will not reveal that the husband gave a get, trying to fool this opposite beis din.

> DNA test says that the child was fathered by the next door neighbor

Yevamos discuss a case of someon who, apparently, can not have children due to a trauma, but then does – does this disprove that he can’t? response – no, suspect the mother …

Lashenhora, we don’t say safek deoraysoh lechumra all over – we have a drashah by mamzer that safek mamzer is mutar. Safek arlah bechhtz laaeretz is another example.

big sugya.
look at yerushalmi yevamos 48, end of perek 8:3.

I guess you are not planning on “yarshen”ing your father’s estate. Because you’re only MAYBE his son.

Did YOU have this conversation with YOUR father? With your wife’s son?

the kehillas yaakov in his last siman on kiddushin discusses this situation

if only one of a person’s numerous anccestors were mazane they are mazerim

If there was one mamzer about a millenium ago then we all mamzeirim

Nonetheless we are not choishesh

and the last mishna in eidiyois says that eliyohu hanovi will not be meracheik the unknown

R’ Menashe Klein also dealt extensively with this topic and basically says that Hashme will never allow it to happen

Shulchan Aruch (E.H. 2:5): If a family of Cohanim has a definite challel amongst them then every woman of that family is prohibited until she is checked and if she marries she must be divorced. The same applies if there is a family that a sofek mamer or definite mamzer.

Rema: However all of this applies only if it is definitely known to be true. However a family that has a person who is invalid for marriage – but it is not public knowledge- since he has been successfully mixed in then let him remained so. Someone who knows about this invalid person – is not allowed to reveal the information but the family members are to be left with their presumption of validity (chezkas kashrus). That is because all such families which have an unknown invalid person amongst them will be declared as fully kosher in the Messianic Era. Nevertheless is appropriate to reveal this information to those who can keep a secret (This is implied by the Ran). However this ignoring of the information is only when the invalid member is successfully mixed in and concealed from public knowledge. But as long as he is not mixed in then we reveal the invalid members and publicly announce it so that unblemished people will avoid marriage with them. See Choshen Mishpat 25 as to who is believed to testify about a families pedigree.

Chelkas Mechokek (2:5.9): One who knows that there is a mamzer is not allowed to reveal this information – But it is stated in Shulchan Aruch (EH. 2:3) that two people had testified that a family has a mamzer or challel. How can they do this since they are violating the halacha of not revealing this information? However saying they shouldn’t testify also presents a difficulty since we pasken in this sif that if there is a doubt whether there is a mamzer in a particular family that someone who marries a member of that family needs to get divorced – so why isn’t it a mitzva to reveal this information because today or tomorrow witnesses will come and testify that there is a mamzer in the family and consequently the children of this family will be considered sofek mamzerim? A possible answer is that concerning the Ran on which the leniency of the Rema is based, he could be talking about a case where it is not clear that a member of the family is actually a mamzer – but merely that there is a rumor. Perhaps it is only such a case where the Ran is saying that there is no need to reveal this information except to modest people [who won’t spread the information]. However when two witness know for certain that a mamzer assimilated into this family it is very difficult to claim that they should not testify since the children of this family – once the information becomes public that there is a mamzer who is mixed into this famly –will henceforth be sofek mamzerim.

@aviradearah
Thank you
So kind
Have a good Shabbos

רב יהודה חזייה לרב יצחק בריה דרב יהודה דגדל ולא נסיב א”ל מאי טעמא לא קא מנסיב ליה מר איתתא לבריה א”ל מי ידענא מהיכא אנסיב אמר ליה אטו אנן מי ידעינן מהיכא קאתינן דילמא מהנך דכתיב (איכה ה, יא) נשים בציון ענו בתולות בערי יהודה וכי תימא עובד כוכבים ועבד הבא על בת ישראל הולד כשר ודילמא מהנך דכתיב בהו (עמוס ו, ד) השוכבים על מטות שן וסרוחים על ערסותם … אמר ר’ אבהו אלו בני אדם שאוכלין ושותין זה עם זה ומדביקין מטותיהם זו בזו ומחליפין
נשותיהם זה לזה ומסריחים ערסותם בשכבת זרע שאינה שלהם

קידושין עא ע”ב

And there is me thinking this was
a orthodox Jewish coffee room

Menachem, according to you there is no problem as a safek is allowed to marry a safek.

Which is why I earlier says a safek mamzer cannot marry anyone. Unlike a mamzer, who can marry certain people.

The question is the old chakira whether rov is a berer by eliminating the safek or rov is a safek which the Torah is matir over here.