Eruvin

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  • #609344
    dafyomi2711
    Member

    The gemora says that Shlomo hamelech instituted the concept of Eruvin but how could he if the whole issur of carrying between chaseiros wasnt even in effect during his time chazal came later no? please answer im sure someone out there knows pshat! thanks in advance.

    #953177
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    As I understand, the requirement of eruv and the issur of carrying without an eiruv in a chatzer came together, and were instituted by shlomo.

    In fact, I like to conceptualize that there isn’t an issur of carrying and then a heter of eiruv, but just one issur of carrying without an eiruv.

    #953178
    dafyomi2711
    Member

    no popa the issur came first i beleive created by chazal as a geder to prevent carrying that is assur deoreisa

    #953179
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Daf, the Issur was not created seperately from the Takkana. Popa is correct, that the Gezeira was to prohibit carrying into the Chatzer without an Eiruv. The reason for this Gezeira is, as you said, so that we don’t extend the habit of carrying, into Reshus Harabim.

    #953180
    dafyomi2711
    Member

    haleivi are your saying Shlomo Hamelech was gozer the gezeira as well as the takana?

    #953181
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Yes.

    #953182
    dafyomi2711
    Member

    how can he be gozer gezeiros he wasnt chazal

    #953183
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    There is a misconception here, and I’m not sure at what level. I hope the following will address the issue.

    We know that after Moshe Rabbeinu even Neviim weren’t able to add to the Mitzvos. When the Yidden forgot 3,700 Halachos after Moshe Rabbeinu was Niftar, Hashem told Yehoshua that He can’t fill him in.

    However, the Halacha of Lo Sassur still applied. The Neviim were the ones who passed down the Torah and when they interpreted a Halacha we listed to them as a Talmid to a Rebbe; when they made a Gezeira we listened because of Lo Sassur; and when they said other things it was a Mitzva to listen to a Navi.

    After the Neviim, when we had the Anshei Knesses Hagedola and the Tannaim that followed, they still didn’t have permission to add new Mitzvos. But, they continued to have the right to make Gezeiros and Takkanos.

    The Gemara tells us that Shlomo Hamelech made other Gezeiros as well. He added another generation to the list of Arayos. These are Derabanan. They aren’t from Nevua. Ezra created Muktza. According to some, certain aspects of Muktza is a Derabanan from Moshe Rabbeinu. Ezra is also probably the one who Assured Kinyanim on Shabbos.

    We use the term Chazal (Chachamim Zichronam Livracha) to refer to the Chachamim that show up in the Mishna, Gemara and Midrashim. However, the Torah, Halacha, Gezeiros, Takkanos, and Talmud, didn’t start after the Anshei Kneses Hagedola. Shlomo Hamelech taught Torah and gave 3,000 reasons for every Mitzva De’oraysa and 1,005 reasons for every Derabanan (Eiruvin 21b). This shows us that he was a teacher, that there were Derabanans, and that Derabanans are very deep and have many Taamim.

    #953184
    Sam2
    Participant

    Dafyomi: Any Beis Din until the times of Chazal could be Gozer G’zeiros L’doros. They just didn’t as often because society was quieter and more simplistic so there was less need for them. This is an exception as the rarity of Reshuyos Harabim D’Oraisa necessitated D’Rabannans so that the Din of a R’shus Harabbim would not be forgotten.

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