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So when the Moshiach comes tomorrow, will you move to Erez Yisrael or will you stay in Galut ?
Have you thought ?The chofetz chaim had a suitcase packed and ready to go in anticipation of moshiach.
I’m not on the ol level to do that, but for me, i try to have it in mind whenever making long term decisions.
Depends how fast I can get the tenants out of the family house in EY.
There is no ‘Lease terminates on appearance of Moshiach’ clause.When Moshiach comes (b’meheirah b’yameinu) I’ll be oleh regel on Yomim Tovim just like the folks who lived in Bavel and Alexandria did when there was the Beis HaMiqdash was working.
What does stay in “galut” mean? Galus and Geula are facts, irrespective of location.
Redleg: However, you will then be an Eino metzuve v’oseh. See Tosfos Pesachim 3b, among other sources
Why wait for Mashiach?
There’s a famous joke/story of a man who heard radio reports that there will be a flood in his town but he refused to evacuate because he had faith that God would save him. When the waters started flooding the town, he refused to go in someone’s boat because he had faith that God would save him. When he was stuck on his roof, he kindly refused the helicopter rescue saying that he was confident God would save him. When he died, he asked God why He didn’t save him. God responded- I sent you the news report, the boat, and the helicopter… what else were you waiting for?
We pray multiple times a day for God to return us to Israel. One day, we’ll complain to God that He didn’t take his back, and He may respond, I gave you the Medina with the right of return, I gave you Nefesh B’Nefesh… what exactly were you waiting for? I am not a navi to know for sure that God only intends for us to return to EY when Mashiach reveals himself or through supernatural and miraculous means. Maybe God has already sent us the news report, boat, and helicopter and we’re praying for something that God has already granted us.
There is a famous joke about a European Yid who came home from shul crying and depressed. His wife asked him “whats wrong?” He said, “the Rabbi said Moshiach is coming and we will all go to Israel. But what will be of our farm and our chickens and our cow?” She says, “Don’t cry. We are maminim bnei maminim. Hashem saved us from Lavan and Paroh and Amalek and Sisra and Yuvun, Hashem will also save us from Moshiach.”
Redleg – that’s the attitude of the 4/5 of klal yisroel who didn’t want to leave galus. They were comfortable where they were. The mitzvah – the complete obligation – to live in eretz yisroel is in full force when Moshiach comes, and anyone who doesn’t want to go will definitely not be zocheh to be among the redeemed.
Those who lived in bavel during bayis sheni were not living bzman hageulah…everyone knew bayis sheni was temporary.
Im shocked and appalled at this abrogation of a mitzvah deoraysoh.
How can someone not have a desire to return to Eretz yisroel when it is restored to its proper glory? Now there are reasons not to live there; the shmad, ease of raising children, parnosa, etc..but the deep, fiery desire of every yid to return to artzeinu hakedosha is imbued in every part of our fefilos and daily activities.
And it is for this reason, among many, that we torah jews despise the shmad state; it holds back the true geulah.
It is an argument between the Aim Habanim Semacha Hy’d and the Satmar Rebbe ztz’l. The former says to go to EY and start building the Beis Hamikdash but Munkatcher Rav with the latter says that the redemption will be spontaneous and no preparation is required.
I suggest you move to Mt Horeb WI. that is the troll capital of the world
Also, i forgot something; those who refused to go up with Ezra were severely criticized
besalel, in my version of the joke is that Rav suggested that Moschiach will take them to EY away from the kozaks, and the wife suggested that Moschiach take Kozaks to EY while they can stay with the inn and the farm..
I’m pretty sure the Midrash says that when Moshiach comes, Yerushalayim will spread out to envelop the entire land of Eretz Yisroel and that EY will spread out to the entire world.
למקור המאמר עתידה ארץ ישראל שתתפשט בכל הארצות, יעיין פסיקתא רבתא דשבת ור”ח פסיקתא דרב כהנא (פסקא רני עקרה), ספרי דברים א’ ילקוט ישעי’ רמז תק”ג שו”ת באר משה לר”מ ירושלימסקי עמוד ע”ר
Aveira,
We know from the Gemara in Yoma and Medrash Shir Hashirim that those who ignored the Nevi’im and stayed in Bavel during Bayis Sheni prevented it from becoming the final Beis Hamikdash.
Our redemption is held back by frum Jews who should know better constantly spewing criticism and hatred against other Jews and even worse, entire groups of Jews.
Asheknazim have a very neurotic, complicated relationship with EY.
My wife and I have discussed making aliyah. It’s on the radar.
If one can make a living in EY, it’s within his shalom Bayis, it works for his children’s chinuch, and the ruchniyus level doesn’t go down, it’s ideal to live there now.
I love when people wait for everything to be perfect before coming to live in Israel. Do you wait for your house to be prepared for Pesach or do you clean, scrub, shop, buy and buy more… EY aint gonna be developed if we dont do the work. We arent of such a high madrega that we can expect everything to be supernatural. peopl esit back and wait for perfection and are surprised when it doesnt happen. Well then take initiative. How many Americans have opened mosdos chinuch businesses, drs and dentists offices etc. They all contribute to the fabric of society. Some people dont like the mentality in EY. Well, the mentality is a result of who lives there. If Arabs live here it will be an arab mentality if Americans will come , it will be more American. You decide.
And why are you so sure that you will make it here when Moshiach comes? There is a medrash that says that the whole world will be like the mabul and EY will be like Teivas Noach.simcha613 – your thought lines up well with the Chasam Sofer’s explanation of “Kol Berama Nishma” – Rachel Imeinu got HKB”H to agree that B’nei Yisrael would be able to start returning to E”Y even before the full ge’ula. It’s unfortunate that “einayim lahem – v’lo yir’u” applies to many of Acheinu Kol Beis Yisrael who have not yet taken advantage of the opportunity to return home to the land that HKB”H has his eye on “meireishis shana v’ad acharis shana”.
an Israeli Yid
One of the main accomplishments of Melech Hamoshiach is “מקבץ נדחי ישראל” – to return all of the Yidden to Eretz Yisroel (after he builds the Beis Hamikdash).
There are many mitzvos that are dependent on all Yidden being in Eretz Yisroel (כל ישראל יושבים על אדמתם) and we have to wait till Moshiach comes to fulfill them.
ראה רמב”ם הלכות מלך המשיח רפי”אRashi tells us (נצבים ל, ג): Kibbutz Goliyos will be tough, but Hashem will כביכול grap each Yid by the hand and shlep them back to Eretz Yisroel.
May this happen speedily in our days!
בניסן נגאלו ובניסן עתידין ליגאל(P.S. Last Sukkos, all Yidden living in Eretz Yisroel said in musaf “מפני חטאנו גלינו מארצינו”… vidal)
Menachem – well said, but Hashem will only bring those who are metzapeh leyeshuah; people who don’t want to go, including people who are too comfortable in galus, simply will not go and will not be redeemed.
Alao, mitzvos hateluyos baaretz are medoraysoh when the majority of yisroel are in eretz yisroel, not all of them.
I must be moicheh on @simcha613’s comment.
To say that the Geulah happened already, is not believing in on of the 13 Ikrim, Ani maamin bebias haMashiach… If you believe the Geulah happened, you do not believe this Ikar, which unfortunately constitutes apikorsis and an apikoires.
Besides for the ridiculous statement that “He will say I gave you a medinah…” This medinah had shmad up 1 million yidden to become irreligious…It says מקבץ “נדחי” ישראל What is a nidach? Someone who can come but chooses not to is NOT a nidach. So before you include yourself on the list, make sure you fit the requirements.
Many people want to return to Israel but what if they don’t have the means to do so? Sadly many jews go in Israel, couldn’t have a parnassa and went back in Galus. I wish things were made easier to do the Alyah, right now Israel has a lot to deal with israelis needs, I’m not sure they can handle the burden of having more migrants.
I take issue with the statement by @someday that Israel had Shmad up 1 million people. We know that Jews living in USA, France, South America left Yiddishkeit at significantly higher rates than those in Israel. In USA, 10% or fewer remained frum and the rest intermarried and are gone. Same is true everywhere else. They are never coming back. They are gone for good. In Israel for every yid that left observance you have 5 yiddin who are chozen btshuva and very very few are intermarried and gone. They are all there still to be chozer btshuva sooner or later.
This is not a defense of the Israeli policies over the years but statistically, a Yid had a much better chance remaining a Yid in Israel over any where else.
Besalel, i think someday was referring to the million sefardi refugees who came to israel; most of whom went to zionist schools, the army, etc, and were totally oisgeshmaded. The zionists were also the reason why those sefardim were forced out kf their former countries.
The ones who went to America stayed Jewish, too. Look at the Syrian community in America…most did not intermarry, and the same resurgence of Torah that happened in EY is happening in Brooklyn right now.
But in EY, they went frei right away, BECAUSE of the state.
And many intermarried without knowing it, because the state recognizes patrilineal descent and fake gerim; an issue not present in America, where even the frei sefardim listen to rabbis.
@zetruth
Not true. A million Russians came and did fine. You can roo.Besalel: The intermarriage rate in Israel is much higher than acknowledged. This is because of the huge number of fake conversions the Zionists conduct. These Goyim then, often, marry real Jews, but statistically they’re not counted as intermarriage since the Goyim are counted as Jews.
Baltimore: Many of those Russians are Halachic Goyim.
Someday- I don’t recall saying that the geulah happened. I said that through the Medina, physically returning to Eretz Yisroel is now more accessible than it has ever been in the past. That’s just a fact. It’s easier to return to and live in Eretz Yisroel than at any point in history since the churban. How that relates to the final geulah is beyond my paygrade.
Yabia Omer: Try to avoid making derogatory comments about millions of your fellow Jews. You’re better than that.
“You’re better than that.” yup even for a lame pretend sefardi troll, you have done better then that
To yabia omer:
Goes show how the ashkenazim brainwashed you.
It was the ashkenazim who built Israel and it was them who forced millions of sphardim to come to Israel and become goyim.
Everything Israel has today is because of the ashkenazim who considered the sphardim to sub humanSub human? That’s a little much
@Baltimoremaven When ? Recently or 20 years ago?
whatever the faults Israeli Ashkenazim (both anti- and religious) had during arrival of Sephardim, I don’t think it is true that Sephardim are doing better in USA. Just because there is a strong insular Syrian community in NYC, does not mean that there are no others who assimilated. And many Sephardim in Israel stayed “traditional” – not necessarily 100% observant or leatn but respectful of their religion. This is probably further true for a similar number of Russians who came with no Jewish background and assimilated/intermarried to higher degree in USA.
To @Besalel and @AviraDearah
I did not say “that Israel had Shmad up 1 million people.” (Or did I? I did not mean that.)
I said (or meant,) the Zionist movement in Europe from 1920-1939 had Shmad up 1 million yidden. The leaders of that zionist movement and shmad founded their medina based on that shmad r”n.Zionists clearly wrote that they were superior in “spirit”(whatever that means to atheists), intellect and creativity to sefardim. They were ashamed of them and thought they were inferior. The empty wagon cites more than 10 examples of this
What happened to “ no Jew will be left behind “ ?
And if a yid doesn’t know about the geula does that mean that the are not metzape liyeshua?Ywm – where does it say that no jew will be left behind? Chazal say that 4/5 of klal yisroel didn’t make it out of mitzrayim for exactly that reason.
And that’s the difference between the geula from mitzrayim and the גאולה העתידה. The geula from mitzrayim was not a complete geula because it was a גאולה שיש אחריה גלות.
The גאולה העתידה on the other hand will be a complete geula where the bad will be נתבטל totally.
Therefore in the גאולה העתידה there can be no מציאות of a yid being left behind as it says כי כולם ידעו אותי@simcha613:
The perception of your initial comment on first read seems to insinuate that the current rulers of the land in some way constituted a part of the Geulah.
If that was not your intention, thank you for clarifying.
Ah gutten moed@fakenews
I never said that the Geulah happened already. That’s what Someday was accusing me of. Mashiach has yet to arrive, the Beis HaMikdash has not been rebuilt, and a secular government is in control of Eretz Yisroel.But the current situation may very well be the beginning of the Geulah. After all, kibutz galuyos, the return of Klal Yisroel to Eretz Yisroel, is an integral part of the Geulah. That certainly seems to be happening. Granted, it’s not happening in a miraculous or supernatural fashion, but do we know for sure that’s how it has to be? The Medina, for all its flaws, has certainly made it easier for Klal Yisroel to return to our land. And we are approaching the point where more than 50% of world Jewry will be in Eretz Yisroel.
Is that a significant step towards the final Geulah? It would seem that it is. Granted, I’m not a navi to know for sure… but if the Jewish people are returning to Eretz Yisroel, then I think the burden of proof would be on those who are denying that this is a fulfillment of Kibutz Galuyos and that this does not constitute a part of the Geulah.
I love this discussion. We won’t lose out on anything when moshiach comes, in fact our houses will fly with us to EY. As for me, to remind myself that I have only aT-home, I say tefillas haderech after lmaan tizkor (without Hashem Name)
I wouldn’t want to live in EY now though, unless my shlichus is there, because the year I was there, I found it very painful to see it in a golusdike state, when this is the holiest land on Earth. But I’m not living in chul because I love chul, it’s only to do my avoda here so that I can live in EY The way it’s meant to be
Cs, seforim say that shuls and batei medrash will fly there…where does it say that houses will?
Avira it’s in kuntres beis Rabbeinu shebabavel, heora 60.
See inside for contextWhen they will see more Jew returning in EY, they will do everything they can to keep them in galus by making the israeli govt appearing as completely dysfunctional and by telling them here you will have the greatest opportinities ever.. just like pharo did when the hebrews were leaving Egypt…
Whether the Israeli government is dysfunctional or not is irrelevant. If it’s not a Torah government (led by moshiach), it’sa tragedy. EY is not just another place Jew can live- it’s Eretz HaKodesh!! And if it’s not treated that way then you feel golus even more strongly there.
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