Enough with the yiddish already

APY – As a person whose parents spoke Ladino but did not pass it down to their children, I highly doubt what you say about Ladino being mamma loshen for anybody younger than the age of 75. Most Sephardim speak the language of the country to which they migrated after the Inquisition – Farsi is much more common than Ladino and I don’t even know if they remember it in the Arab countries. You will also have French, Spanish, and Arabic spoken in Sephardic homes but very little Ladino any more.

147 – “Torah HaKedosho” was written in Loshon HaKodesh. This is NOT the same as Hebrew, which was written by Ben Yehuda.

Nechomah, Thank you for that accurate definition about Ivrit.

An event for ALL klal yisroel should be geared to ALL klal yisroel even if they are 75 years old. Which is besides the point altogether.

By your (and others) take on things, the event should have been in aramaic, since all sectors learn shas and it is by far the most common understood language.

As I said, this has nothing to do with demographics and everything to do with those behind the event, especially the money behind it. We all know the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.

Fpor those who don’t get it. Organizers and those who are for it, are two different things.

representitive representation

You know, it’s the little clues like these that give you away. You might want to look to that.

Naysberg, in case you haven’t noticed Ben-Yehuda (who may have done teshuva on his last day, but that is another post) has been dead for 90 years. In that time Hebrew has developed.

Yiddish may be dead, but B’H Ivrit is alive & well, and may every Jew be Zoche to master fluent Ivrit, and hence good access to numerous Seforim including Torah & Siddur,

Sam2, Biblical Hebrew ceased with the end of the Biblical period. Mishnaic Hebrew is somwhat different – thus Chazal speak of “lashon Mikra” and “lashon chachamim”. As with every living language Hebrew evolved during both the Biblical and Mishnaic periods and is continuing to evolve.

So if a Jew is Sephardic and Yiddish is NOT their language,

Ladino is really a dead language, what do they speak

ZD – Like I said above, I come across many Sephardic Jews and have found that it really depends on which country they migrated to. Those that come from Spain or South America speak primarily Spanish or possibly Portuguese. Those from France or Algiers speak French. The ones that migrated to Iran or other Arab countries speak Farsi or even Arabic. Many who have come to EY over the generations now speak primarily Ivrit. There is no one unifying language for Sephardim as there was before the Inquisition.

Nechomah: What Sefardim have come from Spain in the last 500 years?

I don’t think that Ivrit is the Lashon Hakodesh, because many of the invented words are the exact opposite of Kodesh. However, I do believe that it still takes precedence over other languages being that is a modern spinoff of Lashon HaKodesh and no other language can boast that. There is also nothing less inspiring than watching a fresh ba’al tshuva guiding himself through halacha and mussar seforim with ease without the language barrier. While in other places, even many (though not most) Yeshiva trained men can barely grasp whats going on in those seforim.

Hebrew is the unifying language between Ashkenazim and Sephardim. My best understanding is that the the vast majority of Charedei Torah teaching in Israel (or Eretz Yisroel) is in Hebrew.

Any word in Ivrit that is not “kodesh” comes from Arabic or some other language.

Ironically, Yiddish was a language born of Haifa and arrogance, not of kodesh.

There is a good reason that it is based upon midieval German. In the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries German Jewry was suffering persecution and many responded to the offer of the Polish kings to move to Poland. At that time Poland ruled the Ukraine and what is now western Russia and the Polish kings saw the Jews as an instant mercantile class. However, being Germans, the Jews refused to speak the what they viewed as thecrude Slavic language of the poles and continued speaking their midieval German which evolved into Yiddish

Chulent, Worms is in Germany. All Germans spoke midieval German . How do you explain Polish Jews speaking German ? Until the movement of Jews to Poland our primary language was always the language of the host country. If the Jews who moved to Poland had adopted Polish, there would be no Yiddish. Ironically, centuries later the Jews who remained in Germany looked down upon their Polish cousins

Ashkenazi Jews did and do speak yiddish, Sephardim, did not, are they not to be included and shown some respect?

I am married to a sephardi with ancestry from all over the middle east, and they all speak perfect Hebrew. There is indeed a type of Judeo arabic which is used among certain groups as well as a tendency to use the language of the host country, be it Farsi, Arabic or French. Many biblical Hebrew scholars note that the Yemenite pronunciation of Ivrit is most authentic and closest to the way our forefathers spoke.

Yiddish is a beautiful language precious and spoken by many Jews, but not all!!! yes there are many sephardi especially from Jerusalem who speak great Yiddish, but how about some kavod when talking about Yiddish and realising not all Jews are Ashkenazi and shock horror the shtetels of Eastern Europe have been tragically long gone! Those with any sentiment for the old lands where Yiddish flourished should remember their delightful gentile neigbours who in the absence of Jews still loving cherish their antisemitism to this very day.

Health, so if someone decides to start writing English using Hebrew script, but otherwise leave everything the same, it is going to be a new language? Ridiculous!

There are 12,000 Jews Living in Spain today, Most are from Morrocco

Health: What pronunciation did they change? Are you referring to S’fardi Havara?

mdd -“Health, so if someone decides to start writing English using Hebrew script, but otherwise leave everything the same, it is going to be a new language? Ridiculous!”

First of all, Yiddish is Not just German with the Aleph -Bais. There are many differences.

Second of all, you said dialect. It can only be a dialect if it fits into one of the four definitions. Since it doesn’t have the same Alpha -Bet, it is a different language. This language might have come as an offshoot of German, but it isn’t German -it’s the only Jewish language right now. How come you think you are smarter than Gedolim for the last umteen years? They chose to speak in Yiddish over the languages of the countries where they resided in, this includes Ivrit, when they lived in EY. You don’t think they could learn a new language, esp. Ivrit which comes from Loshon Kodesh? The reason is because it’s (Yiddish) the Jewish language.

So stop with Yiddish is nothing more than German already.

Sam2 -“Health: What pronunciation did they change? Are you referring to S’fardi Havara?”

Don’t you think it’s strange for s/o who isn’t Sefardi to make up a language based on their Havara? The reason why he did it because he didn’t want the New language (Ivrit) to have anything to do with the old (LK). The same reason he made up words that wasn’t needed -like Shairootim for Bais Hakeesay. This might not be a good example because Shairootim might be slang, not original Ivrit. So here is another example -Dayog -Fisherman. The way to say this in LK is probably Odom Sheoichaiz Dagim (Bemetzoida).

He created new words for his new language. Yes, it’s based on LK, but it’s a new language and it has No Kedusha. It’s probably better to speak English than Ivrit. At least English wasn’t created by a Koifer!

Health, if you want to hold that 2+2=5, you are welcome to do it. No matter what we say to you, you won’t agree. If it advances the cause of anti-Zionism to say that we all live on the Moon, you won’t have a problem with it.

“he made up words that wasn’t needed…. So here is another example -Dayog -Fisherman. The way to say this in LK is probably Odom Sheoichaiz Dagim (Bemetzoida).”

First of all it should read “he made up words that weren’t needed”

Second of all, all languages evolve and new words are created. Did you ever wear a “tallis”? Did you know that the word “tallis” does not appear in Tanakh. According to your savara, one can’t say tallis (or tallit); one has to say beged im tzitzis al hakanfos OR something cumbersome like that.

“The same reason he made up words that wasn’t needed -like Shairootim for Bais Hakeesay. “

Shairootim means servicies, or as I would translate it in this case “facilities”. You might say to someone in English, “I need to to use the facilities.” It’s just another way to refer to the “Bais Hakeesay”

“The same reason he made up words that wasn’t needed”

Like those ancient authentic yiddish words “kuzin” and “kuzinish” to describe male and female cousins (at least according to those “expert” at google).

Naysberg: The only people I hear bashing modern Hebrew as much as you do are secular scholars and anti-zionists. At least one group has some understanding of the differences.