English Music

bombmaniac, I hate to tell you, but it is an urban legend that GNR covered Cat’s In the Cradle… it was Ugly Kid Joe (even when credited to GNR), and it’s on an album from 1992 with very inappropriate lyrics.

Also, “Jingle Bells” was composed by a church music director, and has always been known as an xmas song. An alternate verse mentions picking up girls…

“Let it Snow”: Sorry, not tsnius. Alternate verses propose cuddling up to the fire since it’s cold outside.

The poster doth protest too much, methinks. LOL.

There is a simple solution for the store music problem. Go to your friendly local drugstore and buy anti-noise earplugs. They’re cheap and effective. Mack’s (silicone) is a good brand, and there are other brands made of silicone or foam rubber. I always carry a pair for those stores where the music is particularly bad/loud. Why suffer?

BTW, many years ago I walked into a friend’s house on Purim and heard that Piamenta song playing. My friend is very frum and would never have “goyishe” music playing, so I was astonished and asked her why she was playing music by this Australian group. She was herself astonished, as she didn’t realize that the song wasn’t Jewish. I told her what the lyrics are (they aren’t that bad, after all) and she was not happy at all.

Why can’t we do our own music? Why does everything have to have a rock beat behind it with Hebrew words only to “kasher” it?

I love that Piamenta song!

“Why can’t we do our own music? Why does everything have to have a rock beat behind it with Hebrew words only to “kasher” it?”

One word. “Sales”. The Yeshiva Boys Choir would put out a “Best of Chazzanus” CD if it would sell.

Okay. I admit it. I like ABBA. So it was a pleasant surprise to her “The Winner Takes It All” on YWN Radio. Okay, so the words were different, and it was Dedi singing, but I know ABBA when I hear it.

if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

If you work with the assumption that if kids know what is out there, they will want to go off the derech, that doesn’t say much for our derech. We are supposed to believe in what we do out of knowledge, not out of ignorance.

if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

I guess the answer to that question is me.

The Wolf

I dont think that keeping your children so sheltered that they dont know what is going on in the out side world is the the best method of Jewish parenting. Does this mean that you should feed them every shmutz in the world? No.

At the same time fortify them with knowledge. Teach them the beauty of yiddishkeit, what it means to be a Torah Jew. How lucky WE are! Sheltering children to the point of ignorance is what usually backfires.

“opposite s*x”

Dude! really?!

if i was a young child listening to goish music, was allowed to watch tv, etc… who would want to be frum??

I guess the answer to that question is me.

The Wolf

Welcome back!

~~~~~~~~

I agree with Sacrilege. Keeping someone tied up and having them follow you isn’t worth too much. The point is to teach children this is what the secular world has, but what we have is so much better and then show them you believe it with your full heart. And there is the fact that when some people are exposed they break free completely and give up everything. Proper balance is the answer.

*kapusta*

chesed – I believe your example would fall under my statement of “should we feed them every shmutz in the world? No”

I have one word for you. Balance.

Growing – “but i guarantee you the music in their stores would have only been jewish”

I am going to disagree with you. The Jews in Egypt were applauded for keeping 3 things: names, dress, language.

They were cited for visiting the circuses and theatres of the Mitzrim. I think it would be safe to say they were enjoying their music.

Sacrilege: Are you kidding? What gives you the crazy idea the Yidden “were enjoying Egyptian music”? Something to the tune of “Pharoh and his Jewish blood bath”?

Pascha – Terrible!

mosherose: This is a place for an exchange of ideas and there is no need to cast aspersions on other people. You may disagree with the message but don’t shoot the messenger. Apparently nobody who posts here on YWN is frum enough for you judging by your posts on various threads. However, this forum is open to all – not just those who follow you and your rebbe.

mosherose who do u think u are to call someone an apikores?! I agree with minyan gal-from your posts you sound like nobody in the world is frum enuf for you yet you still think the internet is ok.

My kids were familiar with secular music, and liked some of it when they were in their teens. Now, as they’ve advanced in life to being yeshiva bochurim and post-seminary, they’ve opted out of their own accord. We always discussed why certain secular music is inappropriate. Perhaps I’m of the school of thought that with kids, if you make something totally ussur, you’re actually making it seem more interesting to curious kids.

Enroute to one of my kids in Israel is a CD of Beatles music (instrumental) as performed by Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops Orchestra. This was a suggestion one of her rebbeim in seminary gave her as a kosher way to enjoy the music she likes.

Arthur Fiedler and Boston Pops is truly an enjoyable listen. John Williams is superb. Andre Rieu too.

When discussing English music, the name Henry Purcell must be mentioned. Some wonderful compositions.

Absolutely. And let’s not forget John Field.

To be honest, I’m not “up” at all on the music of this century. The secular stuff my kids liked was mainly music from the sixties and seventies. Hence, our spending time discussing what’s inappropriate about a lot of the lyrics. In fact, even when I tried listening to a Yid like Y-Love, I could barely understand a word he was saying/singing/rapping, whatever it is he does. Ditto Matisyahu, although I do like the sound of his stuff, since I happen to like reggae. I’m starting to feel like my own parents probably did when I was listening to rock ‘n roll back in the day.

So what’s the consensus here, not about s#x, but about music?

Opposite sex is the same as opposite gender no?

No. “Sex” refers to the characteristics that differentiate a male from a female. If you’ve ever filled out a form for a driver’s license or a medical history form, they asked for your “sex,” not your “gender.”

“Gender” refers to masculine or feminine in relation to language. That is, “???” is masculine and “????” is feminine.

This isn’t “English” since he was Austrian, but I just heard Mozart on YWN Radio. Cool!

“Is goyishe music really ok”

We’ve had a lot of discussion regarding this issue in other chat forums.

First, one has to define “Jewish” and “goyish” music. Much music of non-Jewish origin has been appropriated by Jews even for liturgical use; for example, the most common tune for “Maoz Tzur” is a German tune that Martin Luther harasha used for a Christian hymn.

And it is difficult to find ANY Jewish music that is not influenced by non-Jewish styles. I’ve mentioned the atonal music of Arnold Schoenberg; it is truly like no music every previously composed. Yet even Schoenberg himself insisted that he was following in the tradition of Johannes Brahms. (And you will never hear Schoenberg played at a simchah.)

Hi, I see that this post hasn’t been visited for a while, but since I’m new to the coffee room, I just had an archealogical find…

Thanks!

I don’t know if I can “enlighten you”, but I don’t mind sharing my opinion, that it depends on the music. Much of today’s secular music (and, unfortunately, much of today’s “Jewish” music, whose style is copied from the secular) is harmful, even without the lyrics. Some secular music, though, might be elevating.

On a subtle level, to some extent, one might be connecting to the composer, but there were gedolim who listened to classical music composed by individuals who may have been immoral people, but those values weren’t necessarily reflected in these compositions.

As a rebbe of mine once analogized, if an artist of poor moral character painted a picture of an apple, it would not be a problem to view that painting.

Even a frum Yid, though, can make up a tune (especially when copying the secular style) which brings out the animalistic part of human nature.