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Its 9:15 now.
Start by telling me what is bothering you.
Go ahead. I’ve been waiting since 9:45.
Whenever you are ready, proceed without any further ado or prompting.
mi keamcha, yes, put it all in one post and one post only. Will then deal with it. Make it your next post.
mi keamchu, My diagnosis is that you need to sit in a Beis Medrash and/or Shiur until Shabbos Kodesh. This works out perfectly, as I am booked with other patients for the rest of the week and will not be able to talk to you anymore from now until next week.
No video games until then. Hatzlocha!
MKY, I vote we immediately ban ham radio and stamp collecting as addicting bittul zman activities.
MKY: If the child uses the electronic toy as an outlet to relax so that s/he can learn better I see no reason why the child should not be allowed to use it.
handheld games are bitul ZMAN and ASSUR for EVERYONE.
Mi…,
I’m curious as to why you hold handheld electronic games are assur because of bittul z’man, but these other activities are not:
Playing a board game (i.e., chess, Monopoly, Settlers of Catan, etc.)
Reading a book
Jogging
Posting in the Coffee Room
Painting
Flying a kite
Writing a story/poem/play
Playing a pick-up game of basketball
Coin/stamp collecting
Photography
Listening to music
Keeping a diary
Going to the zoo/aquarium/botanic garden
And many, many others. Why are electronic handheld games assur because of bittul z’man, but not the above activities? Or are all the above assur too?
The Wolf
Aussieboy, agreed 100%. MKY agrees to that 100% as well. He claims that the circumstance you just described doesn’t exist, though, as the use of games precludes better learning. This is the crux of the debate.
electronic games might be ossur but no way b/c of bitul zman.
Years ago, one of the rebbeim in Yeshiv Toras Chaim in Miami was having trouble convincing parents of the dangers of the Internet. Then someone gave him an actual transcript of an online chat between a student there and a girl. This rebbe showed the transcript to all the reluctant parents. Suddenly even the most Modern of parents had no trouble restricting their sons’ Internet access.
Years ago, one of the rebbeim in Yeshiv Toras Chaim in Miami was having trouble convincing parents of the dangers of the Internet. Then someone gave him an actual transcript of an online chat between a student there and a girl. This rebbe showed the transcript to all the reluctant parents. Suddenly even the most Modern of parents had no trouble restricting their sons’ Internet access.
That’s nice… but what does that have to do with handheld electronic games?
The Wolf
we never stay on topic anyways, so who cares if the posts’ a bit off?
Wolf, Why is that nice?
Wolf, Why is that nice?
It’s just an expression. Poor choice of words on my part.
The main point of what I was trying to say is that his (?) post had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
The Wolf
Wolf, none of the activities that you mentioned above are as addictive as gameboys, (except for posting in the CR). That’s the difference.
Wolf, none of the activities that you mentioned above are as addictive as gameboys, (except for posting in the CR). That’s the difference.
Except that’s not what MKY said. He did NOT say that they were forbidden because they were addicting… he said they were forbidden because of bittul z’man. I’m challenging him on that statement as to why the other activities are not forbidden — or does he actually hold that they are?
The Wolf
I’m just answering the original question,
I may seem extreme but is it me or all these gadgets are getting outta hand.
I think enough is enough, give them a teddy bear, a bicycle, a yo-yo,
& THAT’S IT!!!
Ipod, tripod, x-box, playstation, cellphone, beeper, credit card,
laptop, desktop, laser pointer,(to make their teacher crazy!)
this is all insane!!!
b_h, if they dont get it at home and they want it, they’ll get it by their friends house. If you deny them too much, its bound to backfire, unless you live in the deserts alone.
Ipod, tripod, x-box, playstation, cellphone, beeper, credit card,
laptop, desktop, laser pointer,(to make their teacher crazy!)
this is all insane!!!
What is your objection to tripods?
The Wolf
Oh, I see… they’re bad because they rhyme with Ipod. Got it. 🙁
The Wolf
Maybe he was trying to allude to digital camera’s. You never know. These days those may be bad too.
Wolf,
You can’t take one item off a list and question it out of context.
Newspapers, radios,
Yiddish theatre, TV shows.
Hunting, daydreams,
cholov stam ice cream
He didn’t start the fire…
yeah, daydreaming is PURELY bittul zman and assur al pi all shitos.
Squeak,
Why not? Aside from credit cards (which kids shouldn’t have anyway), it was the only non-electronic item on his list — in a thread dealing with electronic items. He must have had a reason to include it. As such, I would like to know what’s so inherently evil about tripods*.
The Wolf
(* FTR, I don’t think the other things he mentions [except for credit cards] are inherently “evil” and wrong for kids either.)
Never mind. I guess some things are more obscure than I know.
this threads brings to mind–”the difference between tayvos with kids & adults,is the price & size of their toys!”
Jax you cleaned that one up – it used to be “boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive.”
MKY, so tell him that.
mi keamcha yisroel: that is just too sad!
Mi Keamcha,
I’m still waiting for you to answer my question above. To wit:
I’m curious as to why you hold handheld electronic games are assur because of bittul z’man, but these other activities are not:
Playing a board game (i.e., chess, Monopoly, Settlers of Catan, etc.)
Reading a book
Jogging
Posting in the Coffee Room
Painting
Flying a kite
Writing a story/poem/play
Playing a pick-up game of basketball
Coin/stamp collecting
Photography
Listening to music
Keeping a diary
Going to the zoo/aquarium/botanic garden
And many, many others. Why are electronic handheld games assur because of bittul z’man, but not the above activities? Or are all the above assur too?
Please respond.
The Wolf
I have a blackberry….. And I’m addicted.
A crackberry?
mybat-theres no cure, if you get rid of it you won’t be able to live with out it
That’s right. The three things necessary for human survival are food (specifically blackberries), water and air. But mybat, I totally understand you. When I had a cell phone I took it everywhere, and picked it up every five minutes. But then I lost it, and the next few weeks for so much more fulfilling, I refused to get a new one.
It really is easier said than done to get rid of!
Some of the most valuable learning experiences I had as a child were from “gadgets” that were given to me, or I found, which didn’t seem to otherwise have any value.
Some that I had and remember well:
1) a stopwatch — timed everything compulsively for several weeks.
2) An anemometer (for measuring wind speed and direction and predicting the weather).
3. An 8mm movie camera – at age 13, my friend and I made a stop-action animated film. He is now a big cinematographer in Hollywood, and thanks me because he has never had “to work a day in his life.”
4. A 35mm camera – boy, did I learn a lot about light, physics and people with this one.
5. A printing press – we had nice ones at school – I loved the beauty of the rhythmic movements of their mechanisms. The love for these big machines led me into the world of computers, where I found my life’s work.
6. A dog – not strictly speaking a gadget, but she taught me many lessons in kindness, compassion, generosity, enthusiasm and menschlikeit (huntlicheit?), and altered my life from one of bitterness and anger, to one with more kindness and joy.
So, who’s to say that the gadgets of today are merely time wasters? I think you need to examine each one with an open mind, and remember that Hashem sometimes works in strange ways, and how do discover your passions unless you try many things?
bests,
-rsr-
I once just stopped using my cell phone. Left it at home. It was great. Didn’t use it for years, until my wife started insisting she needed to get in touch with me. She never explained why, and I’m still confounded.
I think the Amish have the right idea. They examine each thing to determine whether their lives (and their family lives) are improved by each piece of technology.
Most people think they just eschew everything new, but they don’t. They use engines and other useful technologies on their farms, etc.
They use the useful, and reject that which they perceive as harmful. They do use phones, though phones were put at the corners where four farms met, so they wouldn’t interfere with family life.
Now they have a problem, since one can have a cellphone in secret. In the old days (more than a decade ago) you’d have those pesky telltale wires coming to your house.
bests,
-rsr-
I was once accompanying my future wife to the Bet Din to get a Get, so we would be free to marry.
During a break in the proceedings, the chief judge’s blackberry goes off. He excuses himself, says he doesn’t usually take calls during the day, but this comes from a higher authority.
It was his wife calling.
mi keamcha yisroel: oops my bad! my condolences!
ronrsr: welcome aboard, i like your way of thinking! do stick around here with us CR addicts!
I also want to note that of most of those devices I mentioned, my dear grandfather, Dave z”l thought that they were wastes of times, particularly the dog. We got the dog when I was 14, and he thought I should be spending most of my time learning a trade by then. Thank heavens my mother didn’t always listen to her father.
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