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I just saw an article that in England it is to be illegal to sell eggs by the dozen and that they must now be sold by the pound (lb). It seems that is already the law in the rest of the EU.
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/2542309/posts
This has ramifications in halacha as eggs will not be considered a davar shebiminyan according to the opinion of “es shedarko limanos” (R’ Yochanan). So according to the Taz we will be able to be meikel for hefsed while according to the Schach we will still need to always be machmir. (YD siman 110. Taz 1, Shach 9)
Please explain what the problem is – in English. I understand the Hebrew, but not what the issue is. And if eggs are counted by lb. rather than by exact number, they are still being counted, so what is the problem that you are conveying?
Thank you.
I have not thought enough about this, but I have an initial thought.
Eggs are not a davar shebeminyan here in the USA.
Now you say, but of course they are! They are sold by the dozen!
Well I say that’s exactly why they are not. Davar shebeminyan is when they are sold by individual count, hence each one is a davar chashuv, but when they are never sold individually and only in dozens then it is the entire package of a dozen which is a davar shebeminyan; the individual eggs are nothings!
Again, I have not thought about this much, and I don’t remember the sugya well. It just occurred to me.
yit- they punkt dont sell singles. in EY they do in makolets. its poshut felt in heichi timtza, but i think its still davar shebiminyan.
They are also sold in half dozens. Or you can buy a carton of beaten egg whites, which is certainly volume and not by unit.
Toi, unless it is a hole in the wall makolet stuck in the 60’s, no normal place sells eggs by the single anymore. Dozens, 18’s and trays of 30 are the ruba druba norm. The old ‘how many eggs do you want’ was from a time of rampant poverty and poor supply.
PBA: I was going to say that to be a Davar ShebiMinyan it has to be an individual count (I think a few Rishonim in the beginning of Beitzah say that explicitly), but Yitay beat me to it. I haven’t looked at this in quite a long time though, so it bears actually looking into.
Toi –
So in EY they are a davar shebeminyan (and l’choira cigarettes would be the same). Saying they punkt don’t sell singles is like saying they punkt sell it b’mishkal. That’s exactly the point, that an individual egg is not a davar chashuv on its own in this area of the world.
twisted- alot of places do.
yitay- maskim.
This is a shayla I discussed at length when I learnt the sugya. Additionally I spoke to one of the most well known rabbonim involved in kashrut in America about this sugya and this is what he said (I am omitting his name because this conversation took place a few years back and I’m a little fuzzy on the details). First off its possible that eggs even in America are not considered Davar shebiminyan based on the svara mentioned earlier that it is sold by the dozen not by the singles, however if I remember correctly he was noteh that it would still be a Davar shebiminyan based on this svara alone. The bigger chiddush he told me was that even something sold by the pound can be considered Davar shebiminyan for example eggs in Europe or a big roast because even though its sold by weight you buy it based on the amount ie you go to the store in mind to buy 15 eggs… Or one big roast… (I would like to reiterate that I am a little fuzzy on the detaild and maybe I’m confusing what the rov told me and my/my chaveirims own svaros)
Toi, not the metzius on the ground, at least in the many places I shop. Eggs are a huge part of the average diet, mostly sold in trays of 30, or multiples therof. In case you need one or two eggs last second for a late kugel, you would ask your neighbor who might have 60 eggs sitting on top of his refrigerator.
Can someone give an example other then eggs of something that is definitely davar shebiminyan?
I can hear a svara that eggs are not davar shebiminyan because the fact that they are sold in dozens rather than pounds is for convenience sake. Eggs are fragile and therefore need to be sold in special containers that are shaped specially for them and these containers happen to have 12 slots (or 30 etc.). So when you buy “a dozen” eggs you can say a svara that it is as if you are buying a pound. (The fact that Europe switched to selling by the pound might over turn this svara though)
42: Slices of pizza or bagels would fall into the Machlokes of “Es Shedarko vs Kol Shedarko”.
To pick a nit (which is a type of egg), eggs will be sold by the kilo, not the pound. The article says the packaging will not be allowed to say how many eggs are in the package. In the United States, egg cartons include the net weight (24 oz. per dozen for large, 27 oz. for extra large, 30 oz. for jumbo) along with the count. It sounds like they’re still going to sell eggs in cartons of a dozen in the UK, but they simply won’t be able to label them that way.
If eggs aren’t batel then what’s the svara behind cooking 3 eggs at a time so that if there’s a blood spot in 1 it will be batel?
Eggs are not batel when they are their shells on.
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