Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Effectiveness of the Covid Vaccine
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September 13, 2021 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2007593☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
It works as intended – after getting my second shot, I got Covid.
It could be that without the vaccine, I would have gotten Covid anyhow, since they did recently install a 5g tower a couple of blocks away, but it is what it is.
A question for all the CR experts:
Is it too late to take Ivermectin now, and how does the infertily rate of 85% hold up for people taking it with Covid vs. as a prophylaxis?
TIA
Oh, and b”H no need to say Tehillim, I’m feeling great; thanks for asking.
September 13, 2021 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #2007604Yserbius123ParticipantI don’t know which direction the sarcasm is going or coming. But for those questioning, the vaccine doesn’t prevent you completely from getting COVID. It helps to prevent it, helps to prevent you from spreading it, and helps to prevent you from getting sick from it. Most fully vaccinated people only know they have COVID because they took a mandatory test, not because they felt sick.
September 13, 2021 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #2007607☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI felt ill. Testing was not mandatory for me.
September 13, 2021 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #2007616ujmParticipantThe parallel question necessary when asking the titled question is what are the risks of taking the vaccine.
The honest answer is that all the the risks aren’t yet known.
September 13, 2021 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #2007621☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantThe parallel question necessary when asking the titled question is what are the risks of taking the vaccine.
Also what are the risks of Covid. Which are somewhat known (death is a common side effect, as well as serious mental and physical issues in some), but the same way we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine, we don’t know the long term effects of Covid (for those who survive).
September 13, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2007624HealthParticipantDY -“It works as intended – after getting my second shot, I got Covid.”
I hope no one believes you, because the Anti-Vaxxers are clinging to any excuse Not to get Vaccinated!
According to VP Pence, you can’t talk to the American people, like Biden did.I miss those days when we had Real leaders.
BTW, even after 2 Covid vaccines, it takes a while for the Antibodies to build up.
But I didn’t miss your sarcasm.September 13, 2021 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #2007639GadolhadorahParticipantAll the studies released thusfar, both in the U.S. and EY, seem to confirm that those vaccinated have materially lower rates of infection, hospitalization and death than those unvaccinated. The rates and intensityof side-effects, albeit based on very short-term results, also clearly support the notion that risks are lower with vaccination. No one claims the vaccine totally prevents Covid but the few studies of breakthrough cases show that the large percentage of those infected were either asymptomatic or had only mild symptoms.
For those CR participants still in denial, hoping not to see your photo with a candle in the background on the News page.gSeptember 13, 2021 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #2007640☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantHealth: According to an antibodies test I took, I had strong spike protein antibodies levels.
September 13, 2021 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #2007642🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantIt seems to me a side effect of the vaccine is becoming a troll.
Or was that the covid? 🤔
😉
September 13, 2021 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #2007645☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantOr maybe the Regeneron? 🤷♂️
September 13, 2021 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #2007647☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantOr maybe that was the intended effect of the vaccine, and preventing serious illness is an unintended side effect which the evil government didn’t account for.
September 13, 2021 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #2007649ujmParticipant“death is a common side effect, as well as serious mental and physical issues in some”
Actually, it is very uncommon in unvaccinated young healthy people. It is also very uncommon in unvaccinated people who previously recovered from COVID-19.
September 13, 2021 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #2007651☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantActually, it is very uncommon in unvaccinated young healthy people.
Unfortunately a lot of young people who thought they were healthy weren’t, and died.
It is also very uncommon in unvaccinated people who previously recovered from COVID-19.
Not uncommon to get it again, and vaccines have been proven to further reduce illness in recovered Covid patients.
September 13, 2021 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #2007655Reb EliezerParticipantIn the news, see:
September 13, 2021 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #2007659ujmParticipant“Not uncommon to get it again”
It’s not uncommon for vaccinated people to get Covid.
“vaccines have been proven to further reduce illness in recovered Covid patients.”
Booster shots have also been proven to further reduce illness in the vaccinated. Yet very few people got booster shots.
September 13, 2021 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #2007660HealthParticipantDY -“Health: According to an antibodies test I took, I had strong spike protein antibodies levels”
Well maybe you got the Delta variant.
The vaccines help with this variant – because it produces Antibodies that directly attack the Covid 19 Virus.September 13, 2021 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #2007661Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantRefuah Shleima. Common sense advice – lead healthy lifestyle after that and do an overall medical checkup.
I am not sure why we are still debating pro- and against vaccines. Historical hesitancy of vaccines and greater caution in testing is due to unbalanced risks – vaccine given to whole population v. a small chance of getting sick. For example, there were 15K polio cases a YEAR in US in 1950s for 150M population. Currently, we have 80K hospital admissions per WEEK for just 2x higher population.
Thus, given a high chance of exposure to the virus for anyone who is mixing up with the public, the chance of having a virus is at best 5x lower than 100% exposure to the vaccine. Then, as already mentioned, you ismply compare risk from wild or created virus v. risk from a vaccine that was made to help, and it is obvious that vaccine risk is less. It is like comparing risk of infection v. antibiotics., or bullet and surgery.
September 13, 2021 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #2007662ujmParticipantP.S. I believe most people should get the vaccine. Since most people aren’t young and healthy or recovered from Covid.
P.P.S. It is extremely rare for a recovered Covid patient to get a severe case of Covid. Having recovered from Covid is for all practical purposes virtually at least as good as having been vaccinated.
September 13, 2021 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #2007663ujmParticipantP.P.P.S. The Biden Administration politicized the vaccination program by pushing it stronger than acceptable. By forcing recovered Covid patients and forcing children (!!!) to get the vaccine.
Even 12 year olds aren’t young enough for Biden. He’s pressuring the FDA to approve the vaccine for little kids, whose risk is minimal. (And the vaccine itself contains risks, especially for kids.)
September 13, 2021 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #20076832scentsParticipantujm,
“P.P.S. It is extremely rare for a recovered Covid patient to get a severe case of Covid. Having recovered from Covid is for all practical purposes virtually at least as good as having been vaccinated.”
Not that rare, and I have seen reinfected patients that are not doing well, despite having had a bad case of Covid in the last.
September 14, 2021 12:13 am at 12:13 am #2007695ujmParticipant2scents: Any more prevalent than a vaccinated individual who became infected and isn’t doing well?
September 14, 2021 12:51 am at 12:51 am #2007702☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIt’s not uncommon for vaccinated people to get Covid.
Really? Do you know anyone who did?
Booster shots have also been proven to further reduce illness in the vaccinated. Yet very few people got booster shots.
In Eretz Yisroel it’s common. If the evidence holds up for its benefit, it will become common here.
September 14, 2021 12:55 am at 12:55 am #2007705☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantCommon sense advice – lead healthy lifestyle after that and do an overall medical checkup.
I have actually been doing that recently, but I doubt that’s what caused me to get Covid.
September 14, 2021 12:57 am at 12:57 am #2007703☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWell maybe you got the Delta variant.
The vaccines help with this variant – because it produces Antibodies that directly attack the Covid 19 Virus.to get Covid.I probably did get the Delta varient. Even though I got two doses of Moderna.
September 14, 2021 12:57 am at 12:57 am #2007706☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI am not sure why we are still debating pro- and against vaccines.
Should we stop? Has everyone been convinced?
September 14, 2021 1:11 am at 1:11 am #2007712☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant2scents: Any more prevalent than a vaccinated individual who became infected and isn’t doing well?
There are apparently studies indicating both ways. Probably it’s very similar.
September 14, 2021 1:12 am at 1:12 am #2007711☕ DaasYochid ☕Participantvaccine for little kids, whose risk is minimal. (And the vaccine itself contains risks, especially for kids.)
The obvious question is which risk is higher, and if even, should we vaccinate kids to protect the elderly, especially since we know people can get it multiple times or after vaccination.
September 14, 2021 1:12 am at 1:12 am #2007710☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantP.P.S. It is extremely rare for a recovered Covid patient to get a severe case of Covid.
I personally know a bunch of people who got it twice. I probably got it it from such a person.
September 14, 2021 7:59 am at 7:59 am #2007735ujmParticipant“In Eretz Yisroel it’s common. If the evidence holds up for its benefit, it will become common here.”
In the UK it’s common for recovered Covid patients to skip the vaccine. Because evidence demonstrates they don’t need it.
September 14, 2021 8:00 am at 8:00 am #2007720yuda the maccabiParticipantI’m not really part of the debate being that I know nothing about medicine i got vaccinated because my rabonim told me to
I just wanted to say that I got covid after two phizer shots and I was pretty sick and so was my wife so I dont know where the info that people who were vaccinated dont feel covid is from, but it should be checkedSeptember 14, 2021 8:13 am at 8:13 am #2007757☕ DaasYochid ☕Participanti got vaccinated because my rabonim told me to
Your rabbonim b”H hold you are supposed to follow mainstream medicine, not conspiracy theorists.
I just wanted to say that I got covid after two phizer shots
So did I, Moderna (which if anything is supposed to work better against Delta)
and I was pretty sick and so was my wife so I dont know where the info that people who were vaccinated dont feel covid is from, but it should be checked
Here’s the thing – they get the information from following many thousands of people, not just a few. So they have a lot better information than just you or I do based on what our personal experience will show us.
Your rabbonim have basically said to trust what the vast majority of medical researchers and doctors have said, which is that vaccinating generally reduces the number of serious illnesses and deaths, even if there are many “breakthrough” positive cases.
It’s impossible to know for sure in any individual case, but it’s very likely that had you or I not gotten vaccinated, we wouldn’t be here to be having this conversation.
September 14, 2021 8:14 am at 8:14 am #2007756☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIn the UK it’s common for recovered Covid patients to skip the vaccine. Because evidence demonstrates they don’t need it.
Define “don’t need”. Does it still lower the total risk?
September 14, 2021 8:44 am at 8:44 am #2007761akupermaParticipantIf one read the “fine print” from the CDC and the manufacturers when they announce the vaccine, you would have known that they never claimed it would make you immune from Covid19, not would it prevent vaccinated people from spreading. They claimed only that it would the chance of a vaccinated individual becoming seriously ill (which combined with the fact the very few people who get Covid19 actually become seriously ill to begin with, would make a vaccinated individual would be very unlikely to become severely ill).
The politicians, mass media (including social media), and people who “talking points” rather than long articles to read, ERRONEOUSLY assumed the vaccinated for Covid19 was like more familiar vaccine (total immunity including being unable to spread the disease).
September 14, 2021 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2007763ujmParticipant“Does it still lower the total risk?”
For mild Covid, yes. For serious Covid there’s no evidence that it does (for recovered patients.)
September 14, 2021 10:39 am at 10:39 am #2007786Yserbius123Participant@always_ask_questions That should be a pashut answer. If you say that getting the virus is 5 times less likely than getting the vaccine, then the vaccine should be dangerous to at least 5 times as many people as the virus.
We know that it’s not true. The likelihood of someone getting dangerously ill from the vaccine (or passing on a dangerous illness to someone else) is at the worst most pessimistic estimates about a thousand times less likely than getting dangerously ill from COVID (or passing on COVID to someone who will get dangerously ill.
So everyone get vaccinated! At the very worst, it’s 200 times safer than potentially getting COVID!
September 14, 2021 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2007804ujmParticipantWhat is the likelihood of an unvaccinated healthy person getting a severe case of Covid?
September 14, 2021 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #2007819HealthParticipantDY -“I probably did get the Delta varient. Even though I got two doses of Moderna.”
So is this a contradiction to my post or you didn’t understand it or you agree with me?!?
September 14, 2021 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2007821HealthParticipantUJM -“The Biden Administration politicized the vaccination program by pushing it stronger than acceptable. By forcing recovered Covid patients and forcing children (!!!) to get the vaccine.”
Who Cares?!?
That’s like Saying Castro did something to the Cuban people.
We are Not a Free country anymore!
Go listen to VP Pence on the way Biden & Co. are talking about the vaccines.September 14, 2021 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #2007833Yserbius123Participant@ujm Right now? Pretty likely. Especially if they hadn’t had COVID in over a year and they are in a place with low vaccination rates and don’t socially distance.
September 14, 2021 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #2007959☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantSo is this a contradiction to my post or you didn’t understand it or you agree with me?!?
You can read it however you want, I have no objection.
September 14, 2021 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #2008013☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantEspecially if they hadn’t had COVID in over a year
Compare serious illness and morbidity levels of those who never has Covid vs. those who had it but over a year ago, please. (Both unvaccinated)
September 15, 2021 1:26 am at 1:26 am #2008131Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantRemember that Phase 3 trials measured vaccine effectiveness v placebo – assuming same behavior. In real life, most people relax their behavior after taking a vaccine, like a good ice cream after a diet …
And when you now have a mass of people who congregate together with the vaccine, then they used zechuyot from the vaccine to reduce distance between themselves rather than to be safer.
Ironically, masks seem to lead to higher SD: people see masks and then behave accordingly. But when people see vaccinated people, they do not know vaccination status, leaading to lower SD.
This is a good illustration of Jewish symbolism that reminds us of proper behavior – mezuzah, tzitzis, shtreimel … on the opposite side, this is like good/bad neighbor from pirkei avos – your risk depends on the neighbors.
September 15, 2021 1:28 am at 1:28 am #2008136ujmParticipantYseribus: “@ujm Right now? Pretty likely. Especially if they hadn’t had COVID in over a year and they are in a place with low vaccination rates and don’t socially distance.”
If it was “pretty likely” that all unvaccinated healthy people will get a severe case of Covid, then all of America’s Emergency Rooms should today be overfilled at 25 times their capacities.
Obviously it is not pretty likely that a random unvaccinated person will get a severe case of Covid.
September 15, 2021 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #2008231Yserbius123Participant@ujm If someone hadn’t had COVID in a year, is unvaccinated, doesn’t socially distance, and lives in a place where many others are in similar situations, there’s something like a 30% chance they will get COVID over the next six months. That’s pretty likely. It doesn’t fill up the ERs because it’s not like all of them catch COVID at the same time.
September 15, 2021 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #2008236☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIt doesn’t fill up the ERs because it’s not like all of them catch COVID at the same time.
Also because their cases are generally more mild.
September 15, 2021 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2008237ujmParticipantYseribus: About 46% of Americans aren’t fully vaccinated. About 35% of Americans aren’t vaccinated at all. That’s well over a hundred million people. If they’re very likely to get severe Covid, you should have had 50,000,000 Americans hospitalized from Covid, using your 30% over 6 months figure. That isn’t even close to the case, even over time.
September 15, 2021 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #2008241ujmParticipant“Also because their cases are generally more mild.”
That’s, essentially, the point. I’ve been specifically referring to severe cases, which the vaccine is designed to minimize. Mild cases occur often even with the vaccine.
September 17, 2021 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #2008589Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantcan we do some research on our own here? can I ask people post what was the source and the path to the information they are posting? This well help us understand what our sources are and what biases and influences are. We always do it in Jewish discussion, and we know well differences between Amoraim and Tannaim, etc.
For example, my recent claim ” masks seem to lead to higher SD” is from a research paper that I read in full, found it by a reference from a news site.
September 17, 2021 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #2008590Yserbius123Participant@ujm There’s about 20,000 hospitalizations daily in the US, of which 19,000 of which are unvaccinated. Over six months, that will be something like three million hospitalizations. Not the pessimistic numbers I quoted, but still unbelievably high.
Please get vaccinated for your sake and for the sake of the people around you.
September 17, 2021 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #2008632☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantThere’s about 20,000 hospitalizations daily in the US, of which 19,000 of which are unvaccinated
How many already had Covid?
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