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Who remembers Eclipse?
C’mon, it’s your season now. Everyone’s talking about you! Come out from your hiding place.
Froggie,
Of course I remember eclipse
She’s in a better place (outside of the CRaziness of the CR)
If we make brochos on earthquakes and thunder and rainbows why dont we have a brocho for an eclipse?
besalel-this thread is actually about a former cr member but if you google “brocha on eclipse” you’ll get a few articles that address this point.
“If we make brochos on earthquakes and thunder and rainbows why dont we have a brocho for an eclipse?”
According to Sukkah 29a, a solar eclipse is a bad omen.
A solar eclipse is a predictable event (like a new moon, etc.) with known timing so it cannot be a “bad omen” that comes at regular intervals.
GH arguing with a Gemara
I’m not surprised
LF: Are you still in touch?
Gadol, the whole concept of Mazal is based on predictable times.
Isn’t solar eclipse bad for the einam yehudim?
A SOLAR eclipse is a bad omen for the national of the world, as distinct from a bad omen for the Jews. According to that gemara.
Ironically, it’s not likely that Chazal in the time of the gemarra even ever saw a solar eclipse in totality.
This is not the first eclipse in YWN history
Rightwriter, bad is bad.
But mainly, you don’t make a Bracha on everything interesting. It’s when we come across witness of Hashem’s creation that we utilize that opportunity to recognize that. In this case it’s actually a flaw in the creation, that was put there to mirror a flawed universe in which humans run amok.
It seems to me that oseh ma’aseh bereishis would be appropriate.
As eclipse is a special type of Rosh Chodesh, we already have some liturgy and minhagim. Maybe there is no reason to announce rosh chodesh this week in shul in those places where it will be visible!
Following Chofetz Chaim ^, we can reflect on what eclipse represents. For example, it seems to be a very peculiar configuration of the solar system that even allows for eclipses (ekleípseon? eclepsim?): that moon trajectory is tilted such that it is sometimes goes into the same plane as earth and sun, and that sun and moon apparent sizes are close. Imagine how un-spectacular eclipse is on Jupiter – when every little moon transits in front of us and cover 5% of it. And if moon trajectory will be fully in the same plane as sun and earth, then would it be a monthly event? not so spectacular again …
“GH arguing with a Gemara…..I’m not surprised”
Neither am I when there is no context for a proclamation that a solar eclipse, which is a known geophysical phenomena, somehow portends bad outcomes for some demographic. Is there the same bleak outlook for a lunar eclipse, a meteor shower etc? It was sometime in the 1540s that Nicolaus Copernicus first explained what was happening in a solar eclipese as part of a radical theory of the Universe, in which the Earth, along with the other planets, rotated around the Sun. His theory took more than another century to become widely accepted. My recollection is the the gemorah you cited was written just a bit earlier,
GH
Did you look up sukkah 29a?
Gadolhadorah, so you’re implying that the Chachamim didn’t understand a certain topic so instead made up stuff and committed it to writing. Am I correct? Why would you ever learn the rest of what they wrote?
whether or not an eclipse is a bad omen is irrelevant to my question of why dont we make a brocho on it. We make a brocho on rainbows dont we? We make broachos on actual calamities like earthquakes. halevi says we dont make a brocho because it is a flaw in the creation of the world. as theologically flawed as that answer is, at least it is not logically deficient.
How does one get eclipse glasses without going to Amazon or eBay?
you accursed moderators who allowed sicko’s reform posts here. and still haven’t outed him.
hell is extremely hot.but hey at least he’s not tedious.
coffee-b and h has them. You can also look for them locally. Just make sure they are certified
Besalel, it is logically deficient, because where does it say that it’s a flaw? Also halevi never said that it’s an actual flaw, chas veshalom, but rather intentionally designed to mirror a flawed human condition – that Hashem made us with flaws is very obvious. That was on purpose, not because of, chas veshalom, any mistake of Hashem.
As to why we don’t make a bracha…my theory is that to make a bracha, there needs to be a חפצא, a tangible, physically reactive phenomenon. The eclipse is merely an alignment; nothing is משתנה in the moon or sun.
A rainbow, one could argue, is also not a cheftza, but the bracha isn’t because of the wondermen, it’s because it’s a reminder of Hashem’s promise to not destroy the world again. That’s why it is a bracha of zocher habris, not oseh maysoh bereshis.
@CA, the shammos in shul sells them
“As to why we don’t make a bracha…my theory is that to make a bracha, there needs to be a חפצא, a tangible, physically reactive phenomenon. The eclipse is merely an alignment; nothing is משתנה in the moon or sun.“
Avira,
Ever heard of ברכת החמה? It’s done when the sun is at the exact same spot as ששת ימי בראשית
We recite Hallel on the days of solar eclipses.
Modern,
The eclipse will happen on Monday, Rosh Chodesh is on Tuesday
Coffee, that’s not because of hispaalus, wonderment and awe – it’s because the sun then is at the same location that it was during maysoh bereshis. It’s to remember brias haolam.
coffee > eclipse will happen on Monday, Rosh Chodesh is on Tuesday
molad is not an astronomical observation, but simply adding a fixed average lunar month time that may be hours off a “real” rosh chodesh.
On that note, is it necessary to announce a rosh chodesh (or to go to listen to it), as everyone is going to see it and reminded multiple times before that by the media?
“Coffee, that’s not because of hispaalus, wonderment and awe – it’s because the sun then is at the same location that it was during maysoh bereshis. It’s to remember brias haolam.“
Aaq,
It wouldn’t matter what the reason is because you said
“my theory is that to make a bracha, there needs to be a חפצא, a tangible, physically reactive phenomenon. The eclipse is merely an alignment; nothing is משתנה in the moon or sun.“
“molad is not an astronomical observation, but simply adding a fixed average lunar month time that may be hours off a “real” rosh chodesh.
On that note, is it necessary to announce a rosh chodesh (or to go to listen to it), as everyone is going to see it and reminded multiple times before that by the media?“
My quip of Rosh Chodesh wasn’t to you it was to Modern who said “We recite Hallel on the days of solar eclipses.“
The point of s Bracha is not simply because you saw something interesting. It is when you chance upon the hand of HKBH, and you make the most of that.
Coming across witness of the Briah is seeing the sun at its starting point, getting food which is arraigned from Above, or simply consuming parts of Hashem’s would for your benefit, even getting punished by Hashem, seeing locations that are still around from the time of the creation, noticing trees beginning to blossom, seeing stars that you usually wouldn’t see, as well as seeing the rebirth of the moon — which is an aspect of Briah.
But a phenomenon which is not a mark of creation, nor a consumption of Hashem’s world, but an effect, doesn’t elicit a Bracha. In what way did you encounter Hashem’s hand now more than before? In fact, there are many enjoyments that we don’t bless Hashem upon enjoying them.
Avira, the ‘flaw’ argument is an auxiliary addition to the above. It is called ליקוי for a reason. My description of its essence is from באר הגולה.
I can’t believe it, where is Sam Kliens obligatory achdus and tshuva post on this obvious siman?
““molad is not an astronomical observation, but simply adding a fixed average lunar month time that may be hours off a “real” rosh chodesh”
Potentially days off. The only rosh chodesh that is directly tied to the molad, is rosh chodesh Tishrei (better known as Rosh Hashanana).
If the molad occurs in the afternoon, , R”H is pushed to the next day. If the next day is sunday, Wednesday or Friday, R”H is pushed yet another day (Lo Adu Rosh)
so If the Molad occurs 12:01 noon on Shabbos. Rosh Hashana (“Rosh chodesh tishrei” ) will not begin until the start of Monday (ie sunday night) over a day later.
Molados of Teves and shevat in particulary can be off by a long time, over 2 days potentially(Of course even if the molad was exact, Rosh Hashana/rosh chodesh Tishrei occured on the day of the molad and an eclipse occurred, still wouldn’t recite Hallel on that day)
Halevai
“But a phenomenon which is not a mark of creation, nor a consumption of Hashem’s world, but an effect, doesn’t elicit a Bracha. In what way did you encounter Hashem’s hand now more than before? In fact, there are many enjoyments that we don’t bless Hashem upon enjoying them.”
Your explanation is a bit arbitrary, and seems forced to fit the conclusion.
Why isnt an eclipse part of creation? Who then set the sun and moon in motion?
Why is The blotting out of the sun midday less impressive than an earthquake?
which category does earthquake fall into is it a mark of creation or a consumption of Hashem’s world? It doesnt seem to fit your narrow criteria
ditto for a shooting star/comet ?Chazal said those get berachos and eclipse doesnt, so be it, but your categories seem a bit forced
“Who then set the sun and moon in motion?”
In that case, who created people to walk, so make a Bracha when your baby takes the first step, or maybe also when he/she sits up. Make a Bracha when your see a horse gallop, when you come across amazing art, when you didn’t see a touchscreen for 40 days, when the moon begins to wane, when you see fog, or a bird catching a fish.
The Yesod is very clear and it clears everything else. The Bracha is about coming across the Hand of Hashem.
There’s עושה מעשה בראשית blessings for when you come across original creations, and כחו וגברתו or דיין האמת when someone has come across the display of His Power and Rule, בורא מיני for witnessing His support.
As for the world running its course we have יוצר המאורות as a daily, general recognition. Music and other enjoyments do not get a ברכה since you didn’t just come across the Hand of Hashem.
Sure, it’s wonderful to realize that everything is from Hashem, and that’s why we Daven. But the Bracha is only when you come across it actively.
This might be a fine point, the kind that you’d dismiss if you see it from a stranger but would give more thought of it came from someone you admire in some way. Therefore, I cannot help this last problem.
“The Yesod is very clear and it clears everything else. The Bracha is about coming across the Hand of Hashem.
There’s עושה מעשה בראשית blessings for when you come across original creations, and כחו וגברתו or דיין האמת when someone has come across the display of His Power and Rule, בורא מיני for witnessing His support.”
Eclipse seems to fulfill BOTH of these.
You aren’t explaining why an eclipse isn’t one of them
Why isn’t a horse galloping? Might be a good question but not the topic of this post
What about an earthquake?
“This might be a fine point, the kind that you’d dismiss if you see it from a stranger but would give more thought of it came from someone you admire in some way. Therefore, I cannot help this last problem.”
This is the point we disagree. Your point is contrived. (iv’e heard it from others)
Why does an earthquake/comet/Thunder/lightning get a bercaha but eclipse doesnt?My answer: “I dont know why chazal didnt establish one” maybe its a siman ra? (rainbow is different the text of the veracha isnt on the rainbow per se rather on Hashem keeping His promise kivayachol) But I dont find this convincing, in short I dont know why.
your answer is because it isnt actively coming across Hashem’s creation and it doesnt explain display of His Power and Rule.
why not? kachaWhen one informs his friend there is a rainbow is lashon
hara, why he tells him to do teshuva? Maybe, the Klei Yakar explains the statement that at the time of Rebbi Shimon. Bar Yohai no rainbow was seen. It does not say, there was no rainbow? The tzadikim protect against the effect of a rainbow. So one is saying that there are no tzadikim. May the eclipse is similar.> at the time of Rebbi Shimon. Bar Yohai no rainbow was seen.
how do we understand that? At the time of R Shimon, he had to hide in the caves from prosecution … So, if we live under Nazis and Commies but no rainbows and earthquakes – this is the reward?
There was a rainbow but they didn’t care about it as they relied on the tzadik to protect them whether they saw him or not.
Reb Eliezer,
Is that your own pshat? Because when he went to עולם הבא they asked him if he’s the one that there was never a rainbow and he said “no”
I am thinking that eclipse is there to arose our curiosity (as cheruvim symbolize) and interest in creation.
First, the existence of eclipse is not remarkable. Any planet having satellites would have those satellites crossing paths with the sun, unless those moons were close to 90 degree orbit. But having just one moon (the only planet in solar system) and moon and sun visibly similar size is really remarkable making solar eclipse so spectacular. Looking at a little moon crossing the sun from Jupiter is not really a big deal.
So, when people observe sun and moon separate, you only see a 2-D picture, you don’t think about the distance much. But when you figure out that moon crosses in front of the sun, then you start thinking about 3-D. In fact, several Greeks (Aristarchus and Hipparchus, for example) used solar and lunar eclipses in their attempted computations of distances to moon and sun. They got formulas right, but not always exact distances. It is sadly-remarkable that their work seem to be rejected by later “mainstream” Greek academics, instead of correcting their measurement errors. Solar eclipse was also used 100 years ago to confirm Einstein’s relativity theory.
Lost spark
THE SHOCKING MESSAGE DIRECTLY FROM HASHEM of the recent tri-state earthquake and the Solar eclipse:
Every tragedy has a wake up call message directly from Hashem that you’re not going to find in any sefer in the world or read in any newspaper from a Gadol Hador or speaker saying about the tragedy. And neither is it from me a businessman newspaper writer
THE MESSAGE:
In April of 2024 the Tri-state area of the United States was hit by a 4.8 Earthquake. On the date of 4/8/24 April 8th just 3 days after the earthquake mentioned above happened, a Solar Eclipse was in the skies of the United States that anyone who looked at the Sun during the time it happens their eye vision can Chas VShalom be badly affected. What does the Passuk of 4:8 say in sefer Shemos? Hashem is talking to Moshe Rabbeinu to be Hashems messenger to take the Yidden out of Mitzrayim and is showing Moshe Rabbeinu signs to show them for trust in Hashem with the first sign of his stick turning into a snake and the second sign of his hand becoming white like snow and what does the Passuk of 4:8 say exactly? “It shall be that if they do not believe you and do not heed the voice of the first sign, they will believe the voice of the latter sign”.
That’s the Passuk of 4:8 in Sefer Shemos earthquake at a 4.8 degree 3 days before the Solar Eclipse on 4/8/24 with all of them coming up with the same exact number of 4/8 in 3 different ways of sentence, degree and date. How does that shock you? How does that grab you? Do you think it’s just a coincidence?So what exactly is the message DIRECTLY FROM HASHEM regarding this earthquake and Solar Eclipse 3 days apart from each other? If we think we can continue to live in denial and not accept Hashem’s wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus together then Hashem will Have to tragically send another wake up call after the tragic earthquake already happened of the Solar Eclipse that can damage for life a person’s vision
Is the sun good or bad? We cannot look into the sun. Hashem, we can speak about His actions but not Hm personally. By Kabolas Hatorah, the Jews had to be revived. Veyodato hayom. the sun is good and bad. It heals and burns. It is good but it depends on the object acting on.
The eclipse teaches us that the sun is no deity as the moon can cover its light.
Sam
any idea why Hashem is using a Goyish numbering system to point to a passuk?
Moreover why is He referring to April as “4” is that being over an aseh according to the Ramban? I understand you don’t care for mitzvos but Hashem?
You’re wasting your time. He doesn’t hold of the Jewish calendar as is evident from numerous similar posts over the years.
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