Eating Gebroks on Pesach

Geordie, my apologies. I meant Joe

Neville, i don’t disagree about rice. But, if a processed , boxed , product has a valid recognized Pesach Israeli hashgacha and happens to contain corn, why wouldn’t an Ashkenazi be able to eat it as there is no concern that it might be mixed with chametz?

I think he was responding to your Joe account, not your Joseph account 😉

Kitniyos are not chametz.

No, they’re kitniyos. The halacha is that one cannot abandon a full fledged minhag when the original reasoning behind it no longer applies, hence, it is assur for Ashkenazim to consume kitniyos under most circumstances, even today. By violating the minhag, one violates the halacha.

See שערי תשובה who says one who is lenient is a “poretz geder”.

DY, Joseph, it’s amazing that you can say , with a straight face, that even though the reason is gone, we’re halachicly obliged to follow senseless minhagim. So, Rav Akiva Eger held that smoking is good for your health. How ,then, can more recent poskim hold that it’s assur? Ah, you’ll tell me that we know more now, circumstances changed. Rabbonim allow chalav stam in the US , despite a long established minhag/Halacha because circumstances in the US were different.

Lesschumras,
Let’s call a spade a spade!! You can’t just change a halocho that people keep and all poskim hold of, just because YOU THINK that it doesn’t apply anymore. Where does that stop??? There are secular people who have told me that they eat pork and seafood, because hygiene is much better now than in the days of chazal, afra lepumayhu. That’s where the argument you are making can lead to.

Why are we debating the validity of our own and other people’s Minhagim?
“Who are we to place our heads between giant mountains lest our skulls be crushed?”
Those are not my own words and the original connection is not to Minhagei Pesach but I feel they belong here.
Wishing all a beautiful Yom Tov!

(For anyone curious, those whose minhag it is not to eat Mazah shruya and eat it on Achron shel Pesach, do cook their kneidlach on Erev Shabbos / Shvi’i shel Pesach as it comes out this year -of course provided they made an Eruv Tavshilin. This statement, as noted, was for those who are curious, not for those who need to know lema’aseh what to do, in which case my words hold no authority.)

“So, Rav Akiva Eger held that smoking is good for your health. How ,then, can more recent poskim hold that it’s assur? ”

Asides that the very comparison is A”H (as pointed out by DY). The very issue about smoking on its own is really misquoted and can still be relevant.

For starters you got the wrong Achron, it is the Pnei Yehoshua NOT Rav Akiva Eiger. (at least look up your sources before making a bold statement)
He states it in regards permitting it on YT, as it has to be Shava le’Chol Nefesh to consider as Ochel Nefesh, and many people do not smoke etc. so he simply says being that it helps for digestive reasons it is permitted.

He is simply saying it based on how it was accepted at the time and how it was utilized. And BTW one can still make that very argument nowadays.

lesschumra, if the kitniyos are less than half of the ingredients in the final product, and it has a reliable hechsher that it has no chometz, you <i>can</i> eat it. Kitniyos is botel berov. You can’t make such a product lechatchila, or give your hechsher to it, but once it’s been made and is botel you can eat it gezunterheit.

The same applies if you’re eating in a Sefardi house on Pesach. If they serve a dish of rice and meat cooked together, you can’t eat the rice but you can eat the meat. And you can certainly eat from their keilim without any qualms.

less,

You are correct, kitniyos themselves are not and can’t ever become chametz; therefore, as just one example, they don’t have to be destroyed or sold before Pesach. Hundred of years ago, the Poskim of were quite aware of this fact but (aside from the Beis Yosef) enacted that neither kitniyos nor their derivatives may be consumed on Pesach. This is because kitniyos are generally grown, harvested, stored or processed in proximity with the five grains and therefore may become contaminated with them. In addition, their flours can resemble that of the five grains and might therefore be confused with them. Once this restriction was adopted, an Ashkenazic Jew may not opt out of it, despite any conjecture that the circumstances surrounding kitniyos have changed, which they haven’t.

NevilleCB:

Thank you for explaining!
Far be it from me to suggest being mevatel an established minhag.
Minhag CR or not though, some statements here, such as the one directly under yours from someone whose screen name would like to indicate that he’s far more learned than is obviously apparent, do not sit well with me. At all.

less,

1. Kitniyos contained in a box of processed food that has reliable hashgacha that it contains no chametz. Why is that assur?
For the same reason that Ashkenazim do not triple-check and eat rice on Pesach. The Poskim chose to restrict consumption of these foods and their derivatives, rather than permit them to be consumed with careful checking. Aside from the Beis Yosef, whom Sefardim rely upon.

2. Are peanuts , beans or mustard seeds ground into flour or grown near chametz? If not, why are they kitniyos?
They most certainly were and in many cases still are. In addition to these two reasons, the Ba’al HaTanya added that kitniyos, when cooked, is very similar in appearance to the five grains when cooked. Which is a reason why corn is considered to be kitniyos, yet according to the overwhelming majority of opinions, potatoes are not.

Back again.
Apologies to the person whose post is now directly under the one from Neville that I was responding to.
The post that made me so uncomfortable seems to have disappeared. (deleted by mods? the poster himself?)
I don’t wish to comment on any other posts here.
Wishing all of you a wonderful Pesach!

Golfer, I’ve written earlier on this thread that that is not the minhag for all people who refrain from gebrokts. Some are stricter than others. E.g. some will put mayonnaise on matza but many don’t. My cousins don’t let any matza get wet before acharon shel pesach at nacht. There is no rule for ALL.

takah, someone once told me a similar explanation on how he began to eat chicken and cheese sandwiches.

🙄

That reason was more probable in the time of the Gemara

You are making an assumption. Where do you get that from?

Pupa Tzeilim bakery does their finning with the metal bars, therefore there is less of a chance of white specks of raw flour. Most other bakeries checked have the white speck raw flour problem.

Can one be mattir neder to start keeping not eating gebrochts (or stop keeping refraining from gebrochts)?

the home made egg noodles in the soup are no good.

You’re invited to come here and see that you’re wrong