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So I don’t really post too much other than in the poetry section so I’ve been holding my tongue for a while but I really want to know what your opinion is on EDs. I read the frustrated thread about “rampant” or not and I’ll venture to use that same word here. Yes, EDs are very common. Are there any specific ED centers around? Frum professionals that deal with it? A way to stop it? I’ve heard a few times that they are more common in frum communities because of the Shidduch things. What’s your opinion? And btw, EDs can include overeating as well as Anorexia, Bulimia, EDNOS, binge eating disorder, etc.
Can’t look for it now but I think there is at least one (but possibly more) thread(s) on ED’s.
There is no such thing as an eating disorder. There are only psychological disorders which manifest partially in eating problems.
PBA – call it whatever you want but its a real disorder that can be fatal.
Of course it is a real disorder. I wasn’t trying to minimize it.
I just think it is more helpful to realize that the problem is not the eating.
PBA, according to the DSM-IV, TR the manual to diagnose mental disorders, they are called “eating disorders”. thats the name given to the group regardless if it is mental or physical problem. look at it this way: its a mental disorder that can have severe physical ramifications
It is quite common among Jews, particularly girls in their late teens. I don’t know if it has anything to do with shidduchim, because a high percentage of the Jewish girls come from non-frum backgrounds. Amongst the frum sufferers perhaps you are right. I think some of it may be coming from high expectations many Jewish parents place on their children in the non-frum world – they want them all to attend university, whether or not they are so inclined, because they want “professional” children. I know it isn’t in the same classification (according to mental health professionals), but Jews have a high percentage of inflammatory bowel disease as well (crohns, colitis and IBD) and school pressures and stress have been shown to be contributing factors.
Anorexia nervosa is the psychiatric disorder with the highest mortality rate.
kind of scary in my opinion.
I dont think many of those girls who starve themselves ‘to just be one size smaller’ realize how deadly this disorder is.
Its a vicious cycle, and once ur in it- its sort of too late…..
A prominent rav (His name slips my mind ) is an authority on this topic and his FORBIDS people who suffer from this disorder from fasting even on Yom Kippur (He says its pikuach Nefesh)
He is in Brooklyn, Sorry if I forogot his name
Jam: they don’t starve themselves to be one size smaller. This has nothing to do with it. They have a dysmorphic disorder and when they look in the mirror they do not see their hip bones, ribs and collar bones sticking out – they still see themselves as very fat. Often this occurs in girls who originally were not even obese but perhaps 10 or 15 pounds overweight and someone close to them (family or friend) has commented on this once too often. They begin dieting which quickly turns to starvation. They cannot see themselves as anything but fat. Anorexia is a dreadful disease and takes a lot of medical treatment to control. I say control because often, it cannot be cured. Many patients are able to resume a normal life but often have to resist the urge to begin the cycle again. These patients must be on guard for the rest of their lives, although past middle age, the symptoms and urges often dwindle.
zahavasdad- I think you might be talking about Rav Dovid Goldwasser. He has a book out on ed’s too I think.
I had an ed in hs and my teacher asked our halacha rabbi (who is also a posek in the community and all around) and he said I wasn’t allowed to fast. Later I found out that from then on I wasn’t allowed to fast EVER again because if a person fasts for even one day after having an ed they might start to enjoy that feeling of being empty or of controlling the amount of food they put in their mouth. I didn’t listen to this and b”H haven’t had a problem with it but it definitely is something to think about.
Blabla- you can do it!! Stay strong, you can and will get over this!
Anorexia itself is really not so much related to weight loss as much as it is about “control”. It is getting high on being in control of their bodies and of the food intake especially on how little they can eat.
Minyan gal- ur 100 percent right.
What I meant (and perhaps I wasn’t so clear) is that they start off by ‘dieting/starving to just be 1 or 2 sizes smaller’ and from there its downhill…
Like you said its usually not in girls who were obese. Their goal at first was just to loose ‘a few’ lbs.
Yes it was Rav Dovid Goldwasser.
Happiest, dont take this the wrong way but if a Rav tells you to EAT on Yom Kippur you are required to eat on Yom Kippur just as halachaly required as most people are required to fast
blabla: PLEASE do NOT fast today.
blabla:
I am close to someone who battled anorexia two years ago. Just wanted to wish you good luck and say that with the right nutritionist, right therapist, and right support system (Yes, they are three separate components in the recovery process, IMO) you will get over this! Keep davening!
Hatzlach!!
Blabla,
as a young woman who suffered from an eating disorder a couple of years ago i want you to know that no matter what situation your ever in, your not alone. Firstly, Hashem is always with you. Ironically enough, when i was deep in the clutches of this MONSTER, and feelings of loneliness, despair, fear, and helplessnes etc totally overtook me, i felt closes to Hashem, for the simple reason, taht only he can give me the strength to overcome this difficult nisoiyon
blabla,
I know of someone who I believe is anorexic. She is already underwight, and yet still dieting… skipping meals… not eating at all….
She is constantly saying how she is gaining wieght and needs to work on loosing more wieght… (sort ot the typical signs)
Anyway, do to technical reasons- I cant approach a higher athority or professional (although I wish I could). so I was wondering if you (as someone who is going through this, and understands the other side) can give me any suggestions that I can tell her that may help her…. ? is there anything that helps you sort of overcome the distortion?
any suggestions would be quiet helpful. Thanks in advance!
it has been proven impossible to successfully recover from an eating disorder without professional intervention. As a side note,t he person must want to get better. If he/she lacks motivation no amount of time in an inpatient facility or the likes will do the job alone.
I wanted to thank you for posting this today of all days. Since I have a borderline eating disorder, my Rabbi told me that I am not aloud to fast. Even though I’m eating, its been a hard day because growing up you were always taught you had to fast, so now that you can’t you feel like your getting a thousand averious. I keep feeling guilty and keep trying to fast, but I keep having to remind myself that I AM SUPPOSED TO EAT!! Its dangerous for me to fast. What makes this even harder is that I work in a Jewish office and I have the reputation of being the frum one, no one else is fasting, because they don’t take the day seriously enough and if they see me eating it will just reinforce the fact that your right, this day is no biggie…Who ever said eating on a fast day is easier than fasting is wrong!!
I have a friend who I believe is anorexic. I dont know if shes fasting today but I dont think she fasts. I hope shes getting the right therapy but who knows…its so hard to watch her starve herself. I hope shes on the road to recovery…. also have a neighbor whos anorexic- A boy!!!!
I was told this when I was anorexic- that a person should NOT tell someone who has an eating disorder that they are sooo skinny already because that’s what they want to hear which will make them continue dieting.
zahavasdad- thanks for worrying. I fast on fast days and my (previous) therapist knew that and so does my psych. I don’t think they are too worried about it so I continue doing so.
If c”v I would see that it is bringing back good memories from that time then I would consult a rav and Dr and take it from there.
Thanks again though:)
Refuah Shelayma Blabla. You are admitting that you have this illness and are taking steps to get better, and IY”H you will. There is a young woman at my gym who is looking very anorexic and we are all very worried about her. She claims she is fine but she is withering away and has become very withdrawn. It hurts me to look at her and I worry she will be hospitalized soon. It’s a scary disease.
Hugs?!!
blabla, firstly refuah sheleimah. Secondly lets be very clear of the dangerous consequences of this terrible disease. The worst thing that can happen is “death”. If a person gets so caught up in this disease and does not get help it could lead to death by starvation.
Having said that the next question is why and how does anyone get this disease? This disease is associated with Type A personality. Young people who are basically aiming for perfection. People pleasers, those who are always trying to please everyone and doing the right things, ignoring their own needs and their own inner voice. Always striving and always looking for everyone’s pat on the head and approval. This is a control issue. This is a means of having control over something in their life that no one else knows about and no one else can control but the individual. It winds up being a secret for a long time and that is part of the disease how you fool everyone and hide it. But eventually people start to notice that the patient is “scary” skinny. That they look like a concentration camp survivor. But they themselves don’t see it at all. They are all caught up in how great they are at “not eating” or using laxatives or even purging everything they eat. That is super control. They stop paying attention to the warning signs like the heart palpitations, the dizziness, the nausea, etc. And then they get a high that they can conquer it and keep going, or sneak it past another friend of family member.
They don’t notice their bones sticking out when they look in the mirror. They have a distorted body image. They don’t understand why their parents are crying and forcing them into the hospital.
I pray that you are very committed to healing and that you seriously work with your support team and any other support system that they recommend. You are too important to lose.
princesseagle- who is that meant for?
And having an eating disorder is like living through hell. It is so so so hard. If the person was not depressed before the ed, they definitely will become depressed while having the ed. Many people who have ed’s have some sort of other mental illness or some sort of other issue that they are trying to hide ie- cutting.
It is extremely hard to get over and really once a person has it, it never completely leaves them. It is a known fact that once a person has had an ed, their chances of them getting it again are VERY high.
It’s a really scary disease!!!
It is extremely hard to get over and really once a person has it, it never completely leaves them. It is a known fact that once a person has had an ed, their chances of them getting it again are VERY high.
That is why Rav David Goldwasser forbids anyone with this from fasting ever
blabla: You said:”I feel a lot of pressure from shidduchim, personally.”
Have you had a heart to heart with your parents? You shouldn’t even be thinking about shidduchim and marriage until you are much better. I don’t know how old you are but it sounds like you are probably in your late teens. You don’t have to worry about being “left behind” for several years yet. Your health is far more important at this point. After some therapy you may even find that one of the reasons for the ed is because deep down you don’t feel ready for marriage but cannot verbalize this. Believe me, there is no rush. Get yourself healthy and happy and then – an only then – start thinking about marriage.
@zahavasdad, you’re probably right about what you’re saying because this fast felt ‘extra good’ for me. I’m a little bit nervous at the moment but iy”H it all will go well for me.
I guess I should probably ask another sheila about fasting although it would be really strange for me to stop fasting when I’ve been doing it on fast days for the last 2 or 3 years.
blabla, good for you that you are aware of your problem and resolving it like a mature adult! You are behaving way more maturely than 15! Hatzlacha on your journey to health!
As far as the fasting discussion goes, I heard a story once and I don’t remember which gadol it happened with. A middle aged man was sick and the doctor had said it was dangerous for him to fast on Yom Kippur. This man however felt very strongly that he had fasted his whole life on Yom Kippur and wasn’t going to stop now. His concerned family turned to a gadol with the shaalah. The gadol immediately went to speak to the man who was adamant in his intentions to fast, despite the psak halacha to the contrary. The gadol responded that if that was the case he would forbid any shul from giving this man an aliyah again, as we do not give an aliya to an apikores! The man was astonished and the gadol explained that one who fasts when the halacha says he should not is not worshiping Hashem but rather he is “worshiping” Yom Kippur!!!
Every case is different, but if your posek has forbidden you to fast, then that is your avodas Hashem for the day!
May Hashem bentch everyone dealing with an eating disorder with a complete refuah. Maybe this thread should be used as a support group? (Am I too late for that?)
blabla- at 15 you sound more mature than some 20 (or 22 or 23) y/o’s that I know.
It is so gratifying to see so much CR support for Blabla.
It is ???? to read her heartbreaking and eloquent poems in the poetry thread & offer her support there as well
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/att-poetry-people/page/3
“I ate a ton and wish I would’ve fasted…”
blabla,
could you think of it that maybe you just listened to your body telling you it needed more “gas in the tank”…
now just take it for a spin, work it off, & burn some energy!
Plz give blabla support on page FOUR of the above poetry link (she has several poignant poems which have no responses posted yet)
TIA
“I ate a ton and wish I would’ve fasted…”
blabla,
I belive the Halacha is one who is REQURIRED to eat gets credit for the fast every time they eat
please see page 4 of the poetry thread (the link above is for page 3) to give continued chizuk for our prolific poet, Blabla
Kapusta-for the age thing, sometimes I feel like I’m way into my teens-I don’t know how I’m going to live through another few teen years…I wish I was almost done them.
Sometimes it might seem like it’ll be forever. We all get through it, hang in there. You clearly have a head on your shoulders and want to succeed, so no reason to think otherwise!
blabla- i don’t officially have an ED,and i don’t rlly but apparently acc to some i’m getting there… wtvr. so do i qualify? 😉
Like i’ve said, i understand.. yup, the depression is big too..
Happiest, blabla wrote,
“btw 90-95% of anorexics are girls (I did some research)
and hugs-its kinda scary that you’re fasting ;)”
Don’t feel lonely, just say b”h that there aren’t too many suffering what you are suffering but believe me everyone has their own tzurus an their own pekel. I am sad that you are going through this at such a young age when you really should be enjoying life and having fun. It is so very sad that your life is so stressful that it affected you this way. Just know that you are a very important person and that you need to take care of yourself first and foremost and that you have to please yourself before you even consider pleasing others. And of course that no one is perfect, only Hashem is perfect so no matter how much a person strives for perfection they will never reach it. They will just never ever be happy and never be satisfied with themselves because they have set their goals too high, they have chosen an unreachable and an unattainable goal, anxiety and frustration is their only outcome.
blabla- i don’t have an ed, b”H, but i was accused several times of having one, as well as having someone close to me telling me she thinks i’m well on the way to having one… like thanx for the vote of confidence there peeps! made me feel so good, all those accusations… 🙁 ah well!
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