- This topic has 36 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 9 months ago by YW Moderator-80.
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January 17, 2011 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #594274BoroParkMomParticipant
At least two other moms from my kids’ schools buy “dairy out” from a non-kosher pizza place when they’re too tired to cook. One says that money is tight, and that kosher pizza is almost twice as expensive. The other says that its “just” a derabbanan since theres no unkosher meat, and they eat it on disposable plates. Also, her kids aren’t yet bar/bas mitzvah and she doesnt eat it herself.
These friends of mine are otherwise frum women–their husbands (who apparently approve) wear black hats and give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel. Their houses are otherwise glatt kosher, cholov yisroel, etc. I’m shocked this goes on in our community. How common is this?
January 17, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #729076WolfishMusingsParticipantLet me get this straight… they’re makpid on cholov yisroel, but have no issue with pizza cooked in an oven that, in all likelihood, cooked basar b’chalav?
The Wolf
January 17, 2011 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #729077Chanie08701MemberI’ve heard rumors about this happening, especially on vacations out of town. I think its terrible- treif is treif! You say your kids go to school together. Does that concern you? Should you be exposing your kids to this sort of behavior?
January 17, 2011 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #729078Divorced_GuyMemberI’m also shocked! I have never hear of this in a black-hat community. It’s even unusual in MO world and only occurs with far-left MO.
January 17, 2011 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #729079gavra_at_workParticipantI’m also shocked! I have never hear of this in a black-hat community. It’s even unusual in MO world and only occurs with far-left MO.
Agreed.
Conservodox, maybe?
Just shows you a black hat does not frum make.
And I’m sure there will be those who are Melamed Zechus. I would like to do so as well, but can’t think of anything, especially in BP.
January 17, 2011 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #729080apushatayidParticipantIs it traif or is it a hechsher you don’t approve of?
If money was so tight, a box of spaghetti is ever cheaper than non kosher pizza.
Something doesn’t add up here.
January 17, 2011 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #729081YW Moderator-80Memberthis is reasonable with someone who is “becoming” frum
January 17, 2011 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #729082WolfishMusingsParticipantYou say your kids go to school together. Does that concern you? Should you be exposing your kids to this sort of behavior?
I wouldn’t get into too much of an uproar about this* (WRT taking kids out of school). As long as her kids don’t eat by that parents’ house, I wouldn’t be too worried about “corrupting influences.” Can you guarantee that every parent in your kids’ classes always follows halacha in every detail? And if she does, can you guarantee her that a new institution will be better?
The Wolf
(*Notwithstanding the fact that these women must obviously be educated on the matter.)
January 17, 2011 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #729084YW Moderator-80Memberits far more complicated than that.
i know
January 17, 2011 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #729085WolfishMusingsParticipantits far more complicated than that.
i know
Then why’d you ask the question? 🙂
The Wolf
January 17, 2011 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #729086wanderingchanaParticipantI’d be surprised if their husbands know.
1) If money is that tight, maybe they should stick to pasta?
2) “The other says that its “just” a derabbanan since theres no unkosher meat, and they eat it on disposable plates.” – I’d be curious to ask what her rav says about the fact that the pizza is baked in the same ovens as pepperoni and sausage.
January 17, 2011 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #729087YW Moderator-80Memberi didnt ask a question
January 17, 2011 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #729088WolfishMusingsParticipanti didnt ask a question
You’re right. I misread your statement. My apologies.
The Wolf (who obviously need a refresher course in punctuation).
January 17, 2011 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #729089apushatayidParticipant“their husbands (who apparently approve) wear black hats and give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel.”
I hate to state the obvious. wearing a black hat and giving much tzedaka does not make anyone frum.
January 17, 2011 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #729090always hereParticipantI’m shocked!
yep: “… the fact that the pizza is baked in the same ovens as pepperoni and sausage.” = treif
January 17, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #729091dunnoMemberWow! I never heard of such a thing.
January 17, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #729092Flatbush MommeMemberWhats the problem if her kids arent yet chayev to do mitzvos, and they don’t know what they’re eating isnt kosher (so no problem of chinuch)? I know this definitely happens–especially with the increasing cost of cholov yisrol
January 17, 2011 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #729093☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI agree with apushatayid; something doesn’t add up. Are the following two statements from the OP consistent?
1) One says that money is tight, and that kosher pizza is almost twice as expensive.
2) their husbands … give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel.
Maybe I’m being naive, but I suspect a misunderstanding here.
January 17, 2011 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #729094apushatayidParticipantJust a derabanan? the cheese could be traif midoraisa if rennet from a traif animal is used in the production of the cheese. if any vegetables are used, there is the issue of tolaim, which is doraisa. as has been already raised, the pizza may have been baked in an oven with pepperoni, which is a)traif and b) bassar bichalav both doraisa.
Why do I think this entire thread is contrived?
January 17, 2011 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #729095Divorced_GuyMemberThe cheese is a bigger issue than the pepperoni. The pepperoni is “reicha” or “vapor”, since you don’t know that there was pepperoni in the oven at the same time I don’t believe there is any bosar bichalav. However, there might be lard in the dough and there certainly is gvinas akum, which is ossur.
January 17, 2011 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #729096bptParticipantNever heard of this, and I’ve heard plenty.
Besides, I can’t even think of where in BP could you find a non-kosher pizza place. That, and for about $10 you can by the frozen stuff.
No, I think this a total red herring
January 17, 2011 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #729097☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantLet me get this straight… they’re makpid on cholov yisroel, but have no issue with pizza cooked in an oven that, in all likelihood, cooked basar b’chalav?
If this story is true, which I am (optimistically) skeptical about,
I guess these ladies are not big lamdonim.
January 17, 2011 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #729098YW Moderator-80Memberthe ip adresses are not conclusive but it seems suggestive that we have a poster talking to herself with 3 screennames
January 17, 2011 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #729099estherhamalkaMemberWow! I’m shocked. I have no words. If you want,you can pass this info to those 2 moms- there are 2 shops in flatbush,I know you’re in BP, but anyway,these 2 stores have pizza pies for 8$. These are full regular size pies that you would get anyplace else. The first which I have tried many times and is fine (not the greatest pizza,definitely not the worst,it’s fine) is Divine Bakery and they are located on McDonald ave. Right off of kings hwy. And their phone # is 347-554-8114. The only thing with this place is that since it’s more of a bakery they don’t always have pizza ready and you have to wait about ten minutes for your pie.
The second place I haven’t ever tried,I’ve just seen their advertisements,they are more of a bagel store and they are called Appetizer,or something like that. They are on the corner of coney island ave and ave j. Maybe these people wouldn’t mind to drive a bit out of thier areas to get good,cheap,kosher pizza.
January 17, 2011 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #729100apushatayidParticipantBPMom. Flatbush Momme. Chanie. I think the frozen pizza is on sale this week. cheaper than the trief stores. why dont you pass it along to your friends.
January 17, 2011 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #729101☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantFlatbush Momme,
I hope you are not serious, because if you are, you are seriously wrong. (Although your screen name makes me think that you and the OP are in cahoots.)
January 17, 2011 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #729102Flatbush MommeMember“I can’t even think of where in BP could you find a non-kosher pizza place” Dominicks Pizza on 8th Avenue for one. Supposedly thats where off-derech yeshiva boys and Bais Yaakov girls think they can go on motzei shabbos without their rebbeim seeing them.
January 17, 2011 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #729103☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantMr. 80,
Who’s the third? (I hope not me:) )
January 17, 2011 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #729104mewhoParticipantsince when does a parent not have to give kosher food to children who are young? ive never heard that one.
January 17, 2011 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #729105YW Moderator-80Memberboroparkmom
flatbushmommie
channie087whatever
January 17, 2011 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #729106☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantOf course! Chanie! Thanks, apushatayid & 80.
January 17, 2011 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #729107bptParticipant” 8th Avenue “
Are you kidding? 8th ave? Now I really think you’re making things up. 8th ave has’nt seen a “dominicks” (or anything not Oriental or Halal) in years.
Give it up, Flatbush. Besides, the kids should be home from school any minute now. No sense in letting them catch you on the computer.
January 17, 2011 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #729108☕ DaasYochid ☕Participantmewho,
You are absolutely right. It is ossur to give tarfus to a child. It’s even ossur to put leather shoes on a two year old on Yom Kippur!
January 17, 2011 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #729109charliehallParticipantI live in a mostly MO neighborhood, one that has a substantial left wing component. I do not personally know anyone in the community who eats “dairy out”.
January 17, 2011 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #729110☕ DaasYochid ☕Participantestherhamalka,
Don’t worry too much, we’ve been had.
January 17, 2011 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #729111hello99Participantapy: rennet is batel b’rov miDeoraisa, ma’amad is only dRabannan.
January 17, 2011 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #729112YW Moderator-80Membersharp crew here
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