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At least two other moms from my kids’ schools buy “dairy out” from a non-kosher pizza place when they’re too tired to cook. One says that money is tight, and that kosher pizza is almost twice as expensive. The other says that its “just” a derabbanan since theres no unkosher meat, and they eat it on disposable plates. Also, her kids aren’t yet bar/bas mitzvah and she doesnt eat it herself.
These friends of mine are otherwise frum women–their husbands (who apparently approve) wear black hats and give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel. Their houses are otherwise glatt kosher, cholov yisroel, etc. I’m shocked this goes on in our community. How common is this?
Let me get this straight… they’re makpid on cholov yisroel, but have no issue with pizza cooked in an oven that, in all likelihood, cooked basar b’chalav?
The Wolf
I’ve heard rumors about this happening, especially on vacations out of town. I think its terrible- treif is treif! You say your kids go to school together. Does that concern you? Should you be exposing your kids to this sort of behavior?
I’m also shocked! I have never hear of this in a black-hat community. It’s even unusual in MO world and only occurs with far-left MO.
I’m also shocked! I have never hear of this in a black-hat community. It’s even unusual in MO world and only occurs with far-left MO.
Agreed.
Conservodox, maybe?
Just shows you a black hat does not frum make.
And I’m sure there will be those who are Melamed Zechus. I would like to do so as well, but can’t think of anything, especially in BP.
Is it traif or is it a hechsher you don’t approve of?
If money was so tight, a box of spaghetti is ever cheaper than non kosher pizza.
Something doesn’t add up here.
this is reasonable with someone who is “becoming” frum
You say your kids go to school together. Does that concern you? Should you be exposing your kids to this sort of behavior?
I wouldn’t get into too much of an uproar about this* (WRT taking kids out of school). As long as her kids don’t eat by that parents’ house, I wouldn’t be too worried about “corrupting influences.” Can you guarantee that every parent in your kids’ classes always follows halacha in every detail? And if she does, can you guarantee her that a new institution will be better?
The Wolf
(*Notwithstanding the fact that these women must obviously be educated on the matter.)
its far more complicated than that.
i know
its far more complicated than that.
i know
Then why’d you ask the question? 🙂
The Wolf
I’d be surprised if their husbands know.
1) If money is that tight, maybe they should stick to pasta?
2) “The other says that its “just” a derabbanan since theres no unkosher meat, and they eat it on disposable plates.” – I’d be curious to ask what her rav says about the fact that the pizza is baked in the same ovens as pepperoni and sausage.
i didnt ask a question
i didnt ask a question
You’re right. I misread your statement. My apologies.
The Wolf (who obviously need a refresher course in punctuation).
“their husbands (who apparently approve) wear black hats and give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel.”
I hate to state the obvious. wearing a black hat and giving much tzedaka does not make anyone frum.
I’m shocked!
yep: “… the fact that the pizza is baked in the same ovens as pepperoni and sausage.” = treif
Wow! I never heard of such a thing.
Whats the problem if her kids arent yet chayev to do mitzvos, and they don’t know what they’re eating isnt kosher (so no problem of chinuch)? I know this definitely happens–especially with the increasing cost of cholov yisrol
I agree with apushatayid; something doesn’t add up. Are the following two statements from the OP consistent?
1) One says that money is tight, and that kosher pizza is almost twice as expensive.
2) their husbands … give much tzedoka to mosdos here an in Eretz Yisroel.
Maybe I’m being naive, but I suspect a misunderstanding here.
Just a derabanan? the cheese could be traif midoraisa if rennet from a traif animal is used in the production of the cheese. if any vegetables are used, there is the issue of tolaim, which is doraisa. as has been already raised, the pizza may have been baked in an oven with pepperoni, which is a)traif and b) bassar bichalav both doraisa.
Why do I think this entire thread is contrived?
The cheese is a bigger issue than the pepperoni. The pepperoni is “reicha” or “vapor”, since you don’t know that there was pepperoni in the oven at the same time I don’t believe there is any bosar bichalav. However, there might be lard in the dough and there certainly is gvinas akum, which is ossur.
Never heard of this, and I’ve heard plenty.
Besides, I can’t even think of where in BP could you find a non-kosher pizza place. That, and for about $10 you can by the frozen stuff.
No, I think this a total red herring
Let me get this straight… they’re makpid on cholov yisroel, but have no issue with pizza cooked in an oven that, in all likelihood, cooked basar b’chalav?
If this story is true, which I am (optimistically) skeptical about,
I guess these ladies are not big lamdonim.
the ip adresses are not conclusive but it seems suggestive that we have a poster talking to herself with 3 screennames
Wow! I’m shocked. I have no words. If you want,you can pass this info to those 2 moms- there are 2 shops in flatbush,I know you’re in BP, but anyway,these 2 stores have pizza pies for 8$. These are full regular size pies that you would get anyplace else. The first which I have tried many times and is fine (not the greatest pizza,definitely not the worst,it’s fine) is Divine Bakery and they are located on McDonald ave. Right off of kings hwy. And their phone # is 347-554-8114. The only thing with this place is that since it’s more of a bakery they don’t always have pizza ready and you have to wait about ten minutes for your pie.
The second place I haven’t ever tried,I’ve just seen their advertisements,they are more of a bagel store and they are called Appetizer,or something like that. They are on the corner of coney island ave and ave j. Maybe these people wouldn’t mind to drive a bit out of thier areas to get good,cheap,kosher pizza.
BPMom. Flatbush Momme. Chanie. I think the frozen pizza is on sale this week. cheaper than the trief stores. why dont you pass it along to your friends.
Flatbush Momme,
I hope you are not serious, because if you are, you are seriously wrong. (Although your screen name makes me think that you and the OP are in cahoots.)
“I can’t even think of where in BP could you find a non-kosher pizza place” Dominicks Pizza on 8th Avenue for one. Supposedly thats where off-derech yeshiva boys and Bais Yaakov girls think they can go on motzei shabbos without their rebbeim seeing them.
Mr. 80,
Who’s the third? (I hope not me:) )
since when does a parent not have to give kosher food to children who are young? ive never heard that one.
boroparkmom
flatbushmommie
channie087whatever
Of course! Chanie! Thanks, apushatayid & 80.
” 8th Avenue “
Are you kidding? 8th ave? Now I really think you’re making things up. 8th ave has’nt seen a “dominicks” (or anything not Oriental or Halal) in years.
Give it up, Flatbush. Besides, the kids should be home from school any minute now. No sense in letting them catch you on the computer.
mewho,
You are absolutely right. It is ossur to give tarfus to a child. It’s even ossur to put leather shoes on a two year old on Yom Kippur!
I live in a mostly MO neighborhood, one that has a substantial left wing component. I do not personally know anyone in the community who eats “dairy out”.
estherhamalka,
Don’t worry too much, we’ve been had.
apy: rennet is batel b’rov miDeoraisa, ma’amad is only dRabannan.
sharp crew here
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