Easy Money

Inheriting wealth is a very old phenomenon. Nothing new about that at all.

America is a rich country.

There is such a thing and it is worth pursuing. Rambam and others write that one should teach a child a clean and easy profession. Something, where he can earn respectable living and not requiring undue hardships. I think most people help their children not so much by providing them enough money to live but by teaching them right skills and trades and then helping to ease into jobs or business.

In our times, you can achieve same things even if your parents are not able to fully help. Get a (good) online degree, get a respectable job to feed your family. Then, you can divide remaining time between learning, teaching your kids, and trying risky ventures in Amazon selling and real estate to become richer.

“Get a (good) online degree, get a respectable job to feed your family. Then, you can divide remaining time between learning, teaching your kids, and trying risky ventures in Amazon selling and real estate to become richer….’

Thats one strategy. Alternatively, if you are just starting out and have the discipline, consider applying to a good college and pursuing an advanced degree in business, law, engineering, medicine or any of dozens of professions where you can earn a really good and predictable income without the risk of trying to resell chotchkis on Amazon or flipping real estate. It is increasingly possible in today’s job market to have a flexible work schedule, that would allow time for family and learning.

UJM, are you sure you aren’t the old Joey??

Who is the one that is ready to be an Employer? Why should i deserve to be an employer more then a employee? The one that his money & business won’t effect his relationship with Hashem i.e. he is still going to daven in a minyan every day & have a learning סדר every day. While an employee only works from 9:00AM to 5:00PM this time of work is his fence between him & Hashem telling him its time to go Daven & learn. But the person that realizes this does not need this fence as a reminder to go daven & learn. Hashem sees he gives צדקה, he Davens & learns everyday so why shouldn’t he be a multi-millionaire? he knows how to spend it right & appreciates that Hashem picked him to be an employer more then an employee. Why don’t jews run the biggest businesses in the world? Because if we do it will effect the relationship between him & Hashem (he will forget to daven & not be שומר שבת etc…) while on the other hand the phone company of IDT is owned by a jew by the name of Howard Jonas. Why is he the owner of such a big company? Why did Hashem pick him? Hashem saw in the future that this man has the potential to be rich & not forget Hashem that put him in this position & still do his מצות (Howard Jonas even has a book he made, the name is I’M NOT THE BOSS.)

(cont) and if you don’t value your time to the degree that from 9am you wait when it is gonna be 5pm (and eventually, when is it going to be a vacation, and them retirement), then you will take same attitude to your davening and learning after 5 pm. “Hashem pours wine into a full cup” (Brochos ~ 5)

“But online college .. .might protect from wild parties and bad ideas”.

Sorry to break the bad news, but your fantasies about “wild parties” are a bit exaggerated. Millions of young men and women have managed to get through 4 years of college and graduate without ever having experienced the kind of crazy stuff that shows up in the evening news occasionally and in those “Spring Break” movies. Between keeping ups with their courses and working to pay tuition in many cases, there really is little, if any time for “partying”.
As to being exposed to “bad ideas”, I would respectfully suggest that part of the college experience for ALL students should be the ability to evaluate a broad spectrum of beliefs and ideas and learn how to make decisions for oneself as to the validity of competing positions. In-person learning provides considerably more opportunity to discuss and debate ideas with other students than a sidebar “chat” with other students on a zoom call.

Gadol, besides my own experience, I have two buildings full of students near my house, so I am well aware of student lifestyle. My kids didn’t know that we have neighbors until they (kids) became teenagers: when kids were awake, students are asleep, when students party, kids were already sleeping

Show me a gemora advocating purposefully sampling everything. Or wait just got one in daf yomi Hagiga: a talmid haham who had Greek books falling out of his pockets

And, as I said before, it depends on a person, what degree of engagement is safe

Most people today think Pirkei Avos is full of Rabbi’s opinions but the actual truth is that their advice couldn’t be further from the truth.

What do they say in regards to riches?
Who is rich? One who is happy with his lot and portion given to him in life (even if he is poor C”V) cause if he is happy with what he has then even if you give him millions of dollars for free. He doesn’t need it cause he’s happy with his portion and lot that Hashem has blessed him with from the amount of money to the size of his family etc….

The Akeidas Yitzchak says on the second commandment of לא יהי’ לך and as it is so important I will quote it verbatim:

ויש בכלל זה הע”א הגדולה המצויה זאת בעולם מציאות חזק והוא רפואות כל המחשבות והעסקים לקבוץ הממון והצלחות הנכסים שהמה להם האלהים האדירים אשר עליהם הם נשענים ובאמונתם הם נסמכים ועל קדושת שמם הם מכחישים אלו-ה ממעל ועוזבים
את תורתו ומניחים אותה עגונה ועלובה בקרן זויות וזו היא גופה של ע’א
ועיקרה

I will try to translate above because of its importance. This (the commandment of lo yihye lecha) includes the great idol worship which is found in this world, a great find which is a cure for all concerns and deeds to collect wealth and success of investments which is their great god that they rely on their belief. They trust its holy name and deny the G-d above and forsake his Torah and leave it an aguna and shameful in the corner. This is the main theme of a’z.

Maybe if tzadaka is given properly from it, we realize that we are just a distributer of the money given to us. The Binah Leitim in Parashas Naso interprets the passage ‘אשר יתן לכהן לו יהי what he gives to the kohen is what truly belongs to him.

Avira, I counted on your help :)!

Gadol, RebE, lofty concepts, but the reality is that majority of the people expect to live (at least) like others around them. If they don’t get a legit profession, they’ll get it another way. This is mefurash Kidushin 30. The modern machloket is whether we can be meikel and allow collecting money from non-Jewish social programs. But if you not a tzadik he can live poorly (married to a tzadekes) and you are machmir and insist on earning your own living – then your choice is between college and manual jobs. Many talmidei chachamim are not good at plumbing and hairdressing and would prefer accounting and computer programming. So, then, the question is – is it possible to acquire a profession without spiritual risk (Gadol’s approach to disregard the risk entirely sounds like an ostrich policy that failed in previous generations).

“Show me a gemora advocating purposefully sampling everything..”
AAQ: I’ve never tried blowfish (aka pufferfish”) sushi and really never had a yearning to do so. Aside from its obvious treifus (no scales) rumor has it that about 15 sushi addicts die annually from ingesting improperly prepared nagiri. Likewise, I’ve not tried base jumping off the GWB even though it supposedly a real “high”.
Simple point: I wouldn’t put the idea of attending in-person college classes in the category of some high risk endeavor. Until the past several years, it was (and remains) the norm. Whether it works for a frum young man or woman is entirely a personal decision depending on hashkafah, age, family circumstances, available economic resources, etc.

Gadol, I am not discarding in person college at all, I am just calling for always looking for safer options, whether it is online or local. For example, doing first two years online, local and then transferring at a higher maturity point. Now I am thinking that is how seminaries work: delay for a year, and give antibodies for another one…

One question is whether parents are estimating kids correctly. One campus Rav told about a call he got from a mother asking him about details of kashrus at his dining room. Getting annoyed, he asked her back: did your family go hiking. She said yes. He said, did your son take tefilin with him. She thought and said,. I think not…. Then he said, are you sure he will take it to college?

AAQ/AVD: Valid points. I guess I’m coming at it from the perspective of a young man/woman who is already at the “higher maturity” point. As noted, large numbers of frum yidden have successfully navigated the 4 year on-site college experience w/o going OTD.
I won’t speculate as to their losing a full chelek of olam habah from having sat through a lecture on evolution, court decisions on same-sex marriage or other “bad ideas” but respectfully disagree that the risks parallel those of a free fall from the GWB.
BTW: Those same “bad ideas” could just as easily be communicated in an online lecture as would be presented in a “live” lecture in a campus lecture hall.

I have direct answer from a hoshuve Rav that I quoted before about attending a class on comparative religions. The answer depends on a person. The permissive side is based not just on tuning it out, which will be a waste of money for this particular class, but on a positive need to be able to “know what to answer” when operating in academic environment. But this is an extreme and not the most practical example. Not many Jews get into different religions in college, but liberal/socialist ideas are dangerous. I’ve seen sad reform parents who are in serious business, had a son returning from campus not just with a nonjewish girlfriend but also a trotskyist. So the virus is out there, question is whether kids are protected enough. As I now can hear high school and college classes live at home, I can hear a bunch of teachers diverting history, English, biology, even physics into liberal discourses. Not all, not even a majority, but sufficient enough to be dangerous. I would suggest to everyone, try this for a year, and then you will actually see where your kid is holding when under attack, and then decide whether they can go on their own. My in-family estimate so far is about 70 percent are ready…

Maybe gadol as a risk analyst can give us some numbers on risks out there… You saying that many pass the test is not enough, we need to know how many didn’t pass and what is your definition of passing. Many here would not want kids to end up with some of the views you find acceptable.

Avira, so we have different poskim, ok. I think we talked enough here so that you don’t suspect me of quoting reform or OO or anything like that. Again, this is in context of people already on a path to academic career, not a typical case. I brought a an extreme case. I don’t think avoda zara is a big test on campus ourdays.

Don’t be like Haran who got burned when going into fire because Avraham Avinu escaped. When going to college know that even though others came out untouched, you can get burned.

> with a nonjewish spouse wearing a Chev Guevara t-shirt.

you missed the comma from that horrific story (that is not the spouse, but the child being a Trotskyist)

I am glad for your kids. 2013 Pew numbers are that 85% of O- educated in general are still O- in the 2os, 60% when in their 30s and lower further. I can’t find numbers correlating these losses with college attendance but would not be surprised that there will be.

Gadol, I think the general principle is that Hashem sends us challenges that make us stronger, but it is presumptuous for us to create our own challenges just to show off. We both seem to agree that pursuing college degree is a legitimate direction in order to be educated and productive members of the society (some obviously disagree), then the question is what risk are coming with the territory and some are taken for no reason.

We all have to do it Hishtadlus in life and especially in Parnassa to support our families but if a person can show Hashem their true high level of Bitachon and Emunah (faith and trust) in Hashem in their natural life without depending on miracles. Then Hashem will take care of the rest of them rather through winning the lottery or a rich father in law or someone making a Yissocher-Zevulun deal with him etc….

Klal yisroel while in the Desert was on such a high level of Holiness and Bitachon and Emunah in Hashem after just receiving the Torah Directly from Hashem and while in the Desert they were completely taken care of directly and openly by Hashem by being fed with the daily Mann falling from Heaven to feed Everyone.

May we all start to improve and work on our Bitachon and Emunah in Hashem so that if any of us are ever in need of anything we should turn directly to Hashem. As we say at the end of Birchas Hamazon,vidirshei Hashem lo Yachsiru kol tuv. Meaning for one that seeks out and calls out to Hashem directly (versus going to messengers and middlemen etc….) Lacks nothing that is good for him.

AAQ
you hit the nail on the button and what you wrote is exactly the point.

What is the secret to success in business? A person came to me for some חיזוק (encouragement). He told me he was a Rebbe & was not having a lot of Hatzlacha with his students. He then asked me if i had any advice for him. I then told him don’t be a rebbe for the $40,000 paycheck, do it for the sake of Hashem (not for the sake of money)& then you are guaranteed to be successful by Hashem Himself. He got back to me a few weeks later & told me he was doing much better Boruch Hashem based on that now he was doing his job from a complete different perspective. This can apply to ANY livelihood. (ex. 1) A contractor-if you build a house with the intention for a Jewish family to move in & raise a jewish family then you are guaranteed success from Hashem. 2)A plumber- before you came to your customers house there was a mess & a lot of screaming with Shalom Bayis problems. But now you fixed the bathroom & there’s peace in the house) Bottom line: When a person does his job for the sake of Hashem then he is guaranteed success & he still gets the same paycheck.

Sam, R Eliezer, great we are in agreement. If you want to ensure you are a Rebbe l’shem shamayim, you can do this: work in a well-paid profession half a day/week and then teach for free the rest of the time. You will be free from thinking that you are teaching for money, you will not be scared by principals or parents.