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I can not believe it but over Shabbos there was a 2.9 earthquake IN ALBANY! What just happened in Albany? They legalized gay marriage.
In one week there is a rare earthquake and a rare hurricane. If people insist it is not related they must not be Jewish!
The Yerushalmi says Hashem sends earthquakes because of this sin and clearly Hashem is very angry. In D.C the treasury sustained damage as well as the U.S monument. Is that an ominous sign?
We need rachmanus from Hashem! But I think Hashem is finally beginning the dismantling of America. It was many years ago a moral country however slowly but surely in got worse and worse until we are at this new low. I’m scared.
what are we, primitives, who look at natural occurrences and the entrails of dead animals to divine the mood of the gods?
Or are we modern people with a mature relationship with our Creator, whom we can trust to guide us more clearly?
what are we, primitives, who look at natural occurrences and the entrails of dead animals to divine the mood of the gods?
Or are we modern people with a mature relationship with our Creator, whom we can trust to guide us more clearly?
Neither, we are Jews who follow the torah and the chachamim who told us that when bad things happen it is a sign we should do teshuva.
rosnr, judaism may sound primitive but we believe in G-d and that he rules the world and controls everything in the world. Hashgacha Pratis is true. I don’t know what the “modern more mature ” way of understanding is.
These earthquakes and hurricanes, relative to bad things that happen all over the world all year round, are pretty much nothing.
(I do not see the issue that everyone has with this new law. People who were going to sin in this fashion would have done it anyway. All it does is recognize what a not-so-small segment of the population wants. The issue people should be grappling with here is the growing number of people doing the sin, not the fact that the government decided to recognize them.)
Jewishness…
I know how you feel.
I’m also beginning to feel less secure here than in the past. Economic downfall, a rise in natural disasters locally… I think you might be right about it being connected to the legalization of these marriages.
What should we do about it? Once a law is passed, isn’t it written in stone? To do nothing seems wrong also.
Sam- The Gemorah specifically writes that governmental non-recognition of homosexual “marriage” contracts is what saves the goyim.
Yerushalmi Berachos, perek 9, halacha 2, (64A):
Rav Acha taught:
[Earthquakes happen] because of homosexuality.
Midrash Rabah, Parshas Bereshit, perek 26, paragraph 5:
Rav Huna taught in the name of Rav Yosef:
The Generation of the Flood was not blotted out
of the world until they made official marriage contracts
The gemora (Chullin 92a) that says that the nations of the world, however sinful, corrupt or perverse, still have the merit of at least three behaviors, one of which is “they do not write a kesubah for males.”
Ronsr
Do you expect Hashem to knock on your door and tell you what He wants? Or maybe a text message?
Tomche: Thank you for the sources.
If I may point out one slight difference, all of the sources are talking about where the form of government is a dictatorship. Thus, the government acknowledging something is in a sense making it okay. In America we have a democracy and these laws are just showing what the public mood is, not setting it.
sam, the medrash says that the dor hamabul was destroyed bec. they legalized gay marriage and bestial marriage. That people performed these toaivos wasn’t enough to warrant destruction. “leagalizing and creating a philosophy out of it was.
I understand that. But legalizing in those days meant accepting it as legitimate. In this case, the people have already accepted it as legitimate. The law is just acknowledging that. I’m not saying this is in any way better or different, I’m just pointing out that the signing of such a law might nit really make such a difference.
Sam- No, people have NOT accepted it as legitimate these days. EVERY vote by the people in the U.S., came out against toeiva marriage. Even in California. 29 States voted in Constitutional Amendments banning such a sick farce marriage.
Tomche: I never said a majority. I doubt a majority practiced it even in Dor Hamabul. The point is it is accepted by many people and that is the reason that these laws are being passed-not because the government suddenly decided to endorse the Issur.
I understand that. But legalizing in those days meant accepting it as legitimate. In this case, the people have already accepted it as legitimate. The law is just acknowledging that. I’m not saying this is in any way better or different, I’m just pointing out that the signing of such a law might nit really make such a difference.
I do not understand what you mean. I don’t know what distinction you are drawing.
Popa: My point was that there probably was no concept of that such an action would be permissible without an express law permitting it. In the US it has always been legal to do this sin, this new law just lets people publicize in a different way.
My real point is that these laws are just semantics games with the word “marriage”. A “civil union” license two weeks ago had the same status that a marriage license would today.
Firstly, I do not know why you think that the nature of laws was significantly different in that regard.
Secondly, homosexual acts were indeed prohibited in many states until the supreme court struck them down in lawrence.
I did not realize that Popa, but anyone with a basic knowledge of the Constitution would realize that such a law could never stand in this country if it was ever fought.
Sam- It has NOT always been legal to do this sin. The Supreme Court only overturned the anti-Sodomy laws about 6 years ago. Those law made the actual act illegal. Furthermore, the “civil union” laws are itself a recent innovation of the past few years, that ought to be done away with together with the toeiva marriage laws.
Sam- Many states had anti-sodomy statues for hundreds of years.
I’m not advocating in defense of any of these acts or laws. I was just pointing out a possible reason why a democracy might have been different in regards to the ideas in the sources you posted.
anyone with a basic knowledge of the Constitution would realize that such a law could never stand in this country if it was ever fought.
I’ll let you take that back. It was a 6-3 decision, and one of the votes was a concurrence, so only 5 justices agreed on why it is unconstitutional. Furthermore, the caselaw on which it was based was relatively new (the substantive due process caselaw for privacy which didn’t get rolling until like the 50s and 60s).
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