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CH -“They were not trying to enforce a federal law.”
So acc. to you they were breaking the law because they had no jurisdiction -so why aren’t they being prosecuted for their crimes?
Give up while you’re behind!
DaasYochid -“If you buy on the internet and aren’t charged sales tax (which happens if the seller doesn’t have a presence in your state), you must, by law, send in the tax with your income tax. When you pay sales tax after the sale, it’s called usage tax. Almost nobody does (but they might start cracking down).”
Like I posted before, I have never bought anything over the Internet and was Not charged sales tax as part of the transaction.
E-O-M -“Health- I wasn’t going to respond to your post, I don’t like when the banter gets petty.”
The only thing that is petty is promoting Pot on a Frum website.
“1- do I walk or take taxi/buses everywhere? Hmm… Do you?”
I’m not stoned all the time.
“If I’m too inebriated to drive, I simply don’t.”
And this obviously means when you smoked a joint on a given day -you won’t drive on that day. Somehow I don’t find this believable.
“I’m responsible enough to do that, without having to reference a ratio chart of body weight to ounces of 80 proof liquor consumed.
2- further to the point above, being able to pass a breathalyzer does NOT mean you can operate a vehicle safely.”
Yes, it doesn’t always mean you can drive safely, but for most people you can. OTOH, there is No amount of Pot that can be in your system and you can drive safely. So this argument that you Know when you can drive safely with the amt. of Pot in your system is a Straw Man argument!
Like I posted before, I have never bought anything over the Internet and was Not charged sales tax as part of the transaction.
How do you manage that? I guess you’ve never bought on ebay or Amazon (Does Amazon have a physical presence in NJ?).
I am sensing some blantant outward animosity and labeling so ill stop making points.
Ok last point- your opinion of drinking and driving versus smoking and driving is just that- a matter of opinion, based completely on how you feel instead of being based on any fact whatsoever. I, for example am of the exact opposite opinion of yours regarding this matter.
Obviously if someone is addicted to hard drugs they should go to rehab. This brings up a point. Some boys in my son’s Yeshiva High school were expelled for testing positive for Cannabis. If it’s not done on the premisis, I am not sure what business the school has to do that. Maybe they spend all their time doing things the school may not like? but they can’t test for that. Maybe they shoplift, or order food in the pizza shop and walk out without paying.
I thought that, this is wrong of the school. I think they should offer them rehab.
They should explain to them, that at their age, Cannabis is definetly harmful, according to all.
Shouldn’t they be teaching that? Maybe these boys are not aware of the dangers to themselves?
Now these boys are completely OTD, well what did you expect?
Wouldn’t it be worth the effort to try and get them back on the right path?
BTW, accidents are caused by many factors other than Cannabis.
Most accidents are because of driver distraction and/or alchohol, as well as road and weather conditions.
Cannabis use is very low on the list of accident causes. That is to say, there *are* stoned drivers now. It is wrong and should not be done. But if you are fearing stoned drivers, there are many other causes to be concerned about.
E-O-M -“I am sensing some blantant outward animosity and labeling so ill stop making points.”
Really -is that how I’m coming across? Perhaps it’s because I’m against people taking drugs for no good reason(s)?
“Ok last point- your opinion of drinking and driving versus smoking and driving is just that- a matter of opinion, based completely on how you feel instead of being based on any fact whatsoever. I, for example am of the exact opposite opinion of yours regarding this matter.”
It is Not just my opinion -there are statistics behind my opinion. And here is one:
“Driving after smoking even a small amount of marijuana almost doubles the risk of a fatal highway accident, according to an extensive study of 10,748 drivers involved in fatal crashes between 2001 and 2003.
A study by the French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research published in the British Medical Journal found that seven percent of drivers involved in a fatal highway crash used marijuana.
The researchers estimated that at least 2.5 percent of the 10,748 fatal crashes studied were directly caused by the use of marijuana.”
While alcohol at a certain % level is involved in more crashes than Pot this is because alcohol is legal -so people drink and drive, even above the limit. Pot is illegal and still there are accidents because of it -so you can just imagine the amt. of accidents there would be if they legalize Weed!
The funny thing is, I disagree with everybody. Unlike EOM or Health, I support legalization, because the drug war is just so harmful and wasteful and doesn’t really seem be reducing usage anyway.
But Heath is right that pot is bad. No one should use the stuff, not even once!
EOM: “How is it worse for us to smoke than to drink?”
There are many reasons:
1) It causes health problems including potentially lung cancer.
2) Harms memory and brainpower.
3) Causes anxiety (“paranoia”), including long-term repeated panic attacks in many people. This is common knowledge and has been documented scientifically ad nauseum.
4) Especially in younger people, triggers major psychiatric problems such as schitzophrenia and psychosis (according to several recent studies).
5) Encourages hedonism because of its sensual effects (munchies, etc.)
6) In Yiddishkeit we have so many ways to get higher — prayer, meditation, Torah, dancing, fasting, alcohol, etc. We should rely on the tried and true and safe.
Some boys in my son’s Yeshiva High school were expelled for testing positive for Cannabis. If it’s not done on the premisis, I am not sure what business the school has to do that.
There’s probably a good reason they had them tested.
DY, my point was, instead of just tossing them out, why not educate them about the dangers to their developing brains, why not offer them the chance to not use cannabis.
Health, if there will be more people using Cannabis after legalization, since most people can get it now, many would be switching from alchohol, so the accidents would drop.
Since the cause of accidents are many other things, it’s unlikely for a huge increase. So far, 2 states which have very liberal Medical Marijuana laws have overall decreases in accidents.
Besides which, we tolerate collateral damage in many other things, such as the alchohol, the gambling, tobbacco. How many rapes and murders are acholhol fueled? why not put efforts to reduce that harm?
Main causes of accidents are cell phones/texting, alchohol, agressive driving. Cannabis used is very low on this list.
How many rapes and murders are acholhol fueled? why not put efforts to reduce that harm?
Google “Prohibition”
Been watching quietly for a while. Time to weigh in.
Boys who use their MJ off campus should not be disciplined about it? Did I read that correctly? How bizarre! My problem with people smoking dope is that it scrambles their brains, making them less than capable of using their saichel for anything. The location where they ingested the junk has no relevance. It’s not the crime of smoking. Who can’t figure that out?
Cannabis is not low on the list of negative consequences. healthwise, a single joint puts tobacco to shame, many times over. A single joint contains over 400 carcinogens. The effects of a single joint are far reaching medically, and those forms of damage continue as long as the stuff is present, up to a week for even such “minimal” usage. Read the research, then tell me how this stuff is safe enough to be legal.
Educating boys on the dangers of cannabis is of minimal value, though it needs to done anyway. Most kids accept the misinformation that circulates the streets, not the accurate science that would be taught. Have you ever met someone who used MJ on a regular basis whose brain was fried? How about men who lost their facial hair because of damage to their male glands? These are just a few. There may be no risk of overdose, but the extent of other destruction is staggering. Again, check the research. Then why do some want to legalize it? This is the same as what Chazal tell us about Yidden worshipping avoda zarah, that it was to change the rules and allow for arayos. If one wants taavah permitted, just change the rules, don’t break them.
Some years ago, the Journal of American Medical Association published data that found the incidcence of driving under the influence of cannabis was almost five times that of alcohol! It recommended defensive driving, since catching everyone was unlikely. Other research suggested that drunk drivers are caught 1 time for every 75 times doing so. Ouch!
TLIK – care to substantiate any of the above with facts and/or references?
Majority of these arguments have been, and continue to be the political arguments for the primary American organization lobbying to criminalize marijuana.
Again, I’m not at all steeped in the political side of it, but the only thing I took away from reading about both sides and their respective arguments is that studies mean nothing.
Both sides say they have studies that actually contradict, and yet they stick to their guns as though studies are the end all emet. Don’t believe everything you heard growing up, and for your own sake, do not judge others because of your potentially misguided beliefs.
E.O.M.: I get my information from scientific studies, not from pro-criminalization organizations (which I want nothing to do with.) Search for cannabis or marijuana on Google Scholar and you’ll find tons of evidence for harmful effects, including the ones I mentioned.
Edit to above:
TLIK – care to substantiate any of the above with facts and/or references?
Majority of these arguments have been, and continue to be the political arguments for the primary American organization lobbying to criminalize marijuana.
Again, I’m not at all steeped in the political side of it, but the only thing I took away from reading about both sides and their respective arguments is that studies mean nothing.
Both sides say they have studies that actually contradict, and yet they stick to their guns as though studies are the end all emet. Again I repeat- for your own sakes- don’t believe everything you heard growing up, simply because that’s how you grew up. And for your own sake, dont judge others unfavorably because of your potentially misguided beliefs.
And to add to Adams’ point – we as a people are far more tolerant of other dangerous forms of recreation. Its a mistake to think the negative attitude towards pot stems from societal morals and ethics- it’s deeply rooted in the American psyche because of ancient propaganda dating far back prior to prohibition, which labeled cannabis use as an “evil” and that’s just how it’s always been. For many sephardim who’s grandparents and great grandparents lived in the Middle East- a little arak and hashish on a celebratory evening was considered quite normal.
I’m happy prohibition came up because I wonder if that bottle of schnapps would still be on the table at shul if prohibition had occurred in recent years as opposed to the early 1900’s. I know, I know, our generation is too degenerate to accept such a concept as prohibition- I don’t disagree.
An argument i can hear is that most, or many of us simply don’t possess the self awareness to know when we’ve had too much (to smoke, drink, anything…) and so substance abuse can send many people on a downward path of destructive behaviour and avonot- and this is what we should teach our children when the bill passes in our states. That there are many evils in the world which can also be used in moderation for good- it’s not up to the govt or our leaders to label these things kosher or not kosher, it’s up to US to take individual responsibility of is this kosher or not kosher for ME. If we are strong willed and never lose sight of what’s important, then we’ll be able to defeat and subsequently distance ourselves from temptation. If we are weak, then we will succumb and spiral into self destruction- those are the 2 ends of the spectrum, and then of course there are all the levels in between. If you’re still too old school to hear me out on the pot thing, then re-read this last paragraph and apply it to drinking or whatever other disorders or addiction that may gdforbid exist in your life.
Again I repeat- for your own sake- don’t believe everything you heard growing up, simply because that’s how you grew up. And for your own sake, dont judge others unfavorably because of your potentially misguided beliefs. For that matter, don’t judge anybody unfavorably ever
E-O-M
I won’t divulge enough information to reveal my identity, but I have extensive experience and education in the field. None of my beliefs are misguided, and none are based on the street. I do not benefit in any way from the criminalization of marijuana. I recognize the public safety issue, with a wealth of scientific data plus experience to support my view.
Forgetting the studies, I have broad experience with individuals whose lives were shattered by marijuana, excluding the legal aspect of it. In fact, I am a staunch proponent of criminalizing tobacco. I don’t invest time and energy in that, as it will fail.
Don’t believe everything you heard growing up, and for your own sake, and for the safety of others, don’t advocate for pot because of your misguided beliefs.
There. Fixed.
“For many sephardim who’s grandparents and great grandparents lived in the Middle East- a little arak and hashish on a celebratory evening was considered quite normal.”
Evidence please? I’ve never seen evidence that cannabis use was historically customary among any Jews.
Opposition to cannabis use is not some kind of irrational prejudice. There are reams of scientific studies supporting its dangerousness. Of course, the same goes for alcohol, but in contrast to cannabis, there is a long history of safe and sanctioned use of alcohol among Jews.
adams -“Health, if there will be more people using Cannabis after legalization, since most people can get it now, many would be switching from alchohol, so the accidents would drop.”
While you make other points about Pot that I do Not agree with -they are logical and you’re entitled to your opinion. But this point above is Not logical.
“Since the cause of accidents are many other things, it’s unlikely for a huge increase. So far, 2 states which have very liberal Medical Marijuana laws have overall decreases in accidents.”
Medical Pot is Not the green light you think it is for the general public. Based on reports from Countries who legalize illict drugs on a widespread basis -they have Not found alcohol use to have gone down, only drug use to increase. So therefor Pot will even more contribute to Crashes on top of the other causes.
“Besides which, we tolerate collateral damage in many other things, such as the alchohol, the gambling, tobbacco. How many rapes and murders are acholhol fueled? why not put efforts to reduce that harm?”
This is irrevelant. Outlawing alcohol will Not stop these crimes. You’d only have a point if you were inebriated while committing crimes and this gave you an excuse. It’s all about personal responsibility. The way to do this is to streghthen the existing Criminal Justice system (which btw is a joke). The libs don’t have a clue about personal responsibilty and that’s why they think outlawing guns will stop crimes. It won’t happen and neither will outlawing alcohol decrease crashes and/or crimes!
Health, in the medical states of the USA, they have found less accidents in general. There seems to be evidence to support my view no links
What you content is maybe the case in Europe if you want to post a link, but truthfully, I am also interested in how things are in the USA, all countries and continents have different modes of living.
You said before more people would try Cannabis if legal. They have to come from somewhere. I think about 100 million Americans have tried versus about 20 mill who consumed in the past month. So that means many try and don’t like. It’s really speculation. But I contend that these additional consumers, some would come from using alchohol. There are already many people who do make this switch. It is certainly a healthier choice, but not the ideal to be dependant unless there is a medical reason.
What I mean at the end is that, I cannot understand the arguments against legalization of Cannabis. Whatever is said that may be bad is the same for alchohol, tobbacco, and gambling, and internet etc.
But in all those cases, we allow adults to be adults, liberatarian like. I am not speaking here of any frum issues.
The person decides for themselves if they should work a second job, or relax, and how they relax.
In addition, we have not mentioned that criminality of prohibition, over something less harmful than,
and the deaths of many people, the waste of resources etc. the lack of funds to rehab people.
We should be able to fund any addicts request for 30 day detox and recovery programming.
E-O-M, lives are shattered as well by alchohol and gambling, many more in numbers. That is the point. Alchohol is toxic, and is progressive, the user drinks more till they are really causing themselves severe physical damage. Gambling I have seen people sent to jail over fraud caused by.
Cannabis, properly dosed and regulated is used overall less by volume and so is less toxic, or on the plus side has medical benefits.
Please tell more about the lives shattered you have seen.
Adams -the fact is in the US it’s illegal and if you legalize it -it won’t solve any problems. Obviously the decrease in accidents in those States has nothing to do with Pot. In Switzerland it’s basically legal and Pot usage has increased -the same will happen here. And even though Alcohol usuage has dropped slightly, even if due to switching to Pot instead of alcohol, it is still a major problem in Switzerland. They have two major social problems there and we are following suit.
You just don’t want to face the facts about Pot. And your theory that it’s Not worse than cig. smoking, alcohol abuse, etc., even if true, doesn’t point to legalizing Pot – only to illegalizing the other things!
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