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Hi Aries.
What are you saying?
That is not “the” point. That is “a” point.
First they had to be offered the assignment by someone from the chesed agency.
And, again, assignments should be properly matched with the volunteer.
I know the thread is long now, but I originally stated I am in agreement with the idea of doing
chesed with mentchlichkeit and suggested such volunteers for organizations should go through a training period so they do the mitzva properly.
I was trying to back up real-brisker in a way that was a compromise on how to view the situation.
In any regard, someone picking someone up from the hospital should be matched properly to be mature enough to know they should be considerate beyond the usual consideration when with other people who are not your close friends/buddies.
To save micro-analyzing to find something to say, basically people will either think there was or was not a problem with how this chesed was carried out.
You can always fall back on the standard, “The customer is always right.”
When doing a chesed, I would hope none of us would do a shabby job because we dont see as an act someone is paying for. Both require being done in a mentschadik way.
“When doing a chesed, I would hope none of us would do a shabby job because we dont see as an act someone is paying for. Both require being done in a mentschadik way.”
Agreed.
My Take: Sorry I didnt reply earlier. Just checked in tonight.
First of all, amen to your brochos! I also remember the total feeling of exhaustion! I wondered if I would ever be able togo back to a routine life? Sometimes I used to look out the window and wondered how are all those people just going on with their lives? Do they understand? If you would like to share the name of your family member I would try to have her in mind… Wishing you and your family a true lichtig Channukah!!
BT Guy – You hit the nail on the head. These volunteers were selfless devoted to do the job they were given, yes indeed the recipent could have recived better, but one cannot blame the giver.
If one is truly acting selfless, that person would go WITH the choleh to the hospital and wait for him/her to be finished with the appointment or treatment. That is exactly what I do when I volunteer my time in this fashion. If they cannot afford to sit around and wait (as most people cannot), then they should at least structure their own appointments with the idea in mind of leaving enough time to get back to pick up the choleh at the pre-arranged time. I am not sure why this concept is so hard to be understood. People who are sensitive to the needs of others, have already “chaaped” it. Don’t blame the recipient of a kindness for being upset if the kindness is done in a way that leaves a bad taste. There are entire sections of dinim devoted to the proper way to be mekayeim bikur cholim.
Oomis, I am so shocked that RB is still defending this position and arguing this point. It is almost painful to read his posts. I am not sure if he is doing it because he has a need to win the argument or because he really believes what he says. If he is just trying to win the argument, according to what the general consensus on this thread is, he lost. If he truly believes what he says then we are not going to change his mind, only his own Rebbe can do that or c”v he will have to be on the receiving end to understand it.
Aries – What would appear to e/o as common sense, is not always that common. If you remember my posts about orgs. that are only there for Kovod and basically do a lousy job for the recipient -this is typical of their train of thought. This is why they have No guilty conscience in what they do -because they simply write off any criticism with -“Don’t complain -I’m doing you the favor -I’M a VOLUNTEER”!
oomis – So you mean to say that only if you do what you said they are selfless, but if they don’t do that then they must be doing their chessed because they are having fringe benifets from it? That doesn’t make so much sense. What type of selfishness is there in offering chessed not in your fashion?
(Real Brisker)
“but if they don’t do that then they must be doing their chessed because they are having fringe benifets from it? “
How did you extrapolate and infer this from what I wrote? Who mentioned fringe benefits? You seem to have a problem RB, I am sorry to say, in that you dig in your heels and continue to fruitlessly attempt to defend your position, which has dumbfounded so many of us. How can you truly not understand the VERY simple notion that doing a chessed is no chessed (no matter how proud one might feel about oneself for volunteering one’s ultimately half-baked efforts), when it does not properly actually HELP the recipient of that chessed? Do you really not see that?
To make it really simple – if for example, I want to cook a meal for someone who is R”L sitting shiva, I am going to find out if there are any food allergies, or if the aveil is diabetic, etc. before I cook a meal as a chessed, that he absolutely cannot eat, and which will only take up space in his fridge. I will (when I deem necessary) even check to see if the family only eat from a certain hashgocha, or cholov Yisroel, or the like. That’s because I want to be HELPFUL in doing my chessed, not merely feel “What a tzadeikes am I, to do XYZ for that person!” It is definitely not helpful to leave a choleh waiting on shpilkes for a ride that is very late with no phone call to let him/her know what’s happening. For all the choleh knows, the ride forgot about picking him up altogether (that happened to me personally with a carpool).
Hashem should bensch you with good health, that you should never be in the position that person was in. You ought to try standing in the other person’s shoes before continuing to express your truly insensitive comments about beggars being choosers. That was just plain offensive to ALL the people who have been treated to such “chessed.”
oomis – The opposite of selfless is -…? Yes having fringe benifets. And thats what you stated in your previous post (pretty much); “If one is acting truly selfless, then one would go…” Now if one doesn’t do that then they are…? What I mean with beggars can’t be choosey, is not to call the reciver an actual beggar, rather that the giver doesn’t owe more than was actually given.
RB, the giver doesn’t owe anything and should not offer to do anything if they don’t intend to do it with a full heart no matter what it takes to accomplish it. That’s the point, if it is an inconvenience to the giver then don’t give.
OK RB, whatever you say. When you argue simply for the sake of arguing, and the point you are trying to make is pointLESS (and I suspect you actually DO see that, but you just like to yank our chains), it’s best when the other party stops feeding into it. This is me, stopping. Chag sameach.
Aries – Yes, they shouldn’t be doing it -if they can’t do it right. I forget the saying.
Anyways my point is – a lot of these members can’t stop from belonging to the org., that they belong to, even though they do a lousy job, because they are addicted to the Kovod!
oomis – Chag Sameach, and ah Freilachen Chanukah. Sorry thats what you think.
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