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Some people (tzfati to be exact) believe the rebbe is alive bigashmious
So they’re stam apikorsim.
while everyone else believes he’s alive beruchnious.
More alive than Dovid Hamelech? Rashi? Rav Moshe Feinstein?
“Do you really think Belzers, Satmars, Bobovers, etc would quote HaRav Eliyashiv either?”
Oh please, Neville
You know that wasn’t the point. Don’t take a specific and pretend someone meant it as a klaland we don’t have time to learn anything else…
Which is why nebach amaratzus is so rampant, and simple gemaras and Rambams are twisted out of their true meanings.
@DaasYochid, I hope in the this comment you are indeed a daas yochid, because what you said about am haratzus being rampant in Chabad is absolutely false. I’m a Lubavitcher, (male) and learned in Chabad Yeshivas in EY and US. We spend most of our day ( around 7hrs of it) learning Gemara, with all the meforshim, including Reb Boruch Ber, Shiurei R Shmuel, R Chaim and many more. Additionally, we finish the entire Rambam ( Yad Hachazaka) every year or every 3 years. Lubavitcher bochurim are boki in Yore Deah before getting married. If you didn’t realize until now, “ChabadShlucha” is a women, ( hence “shlucha” ) and as such, probably doesn’t learn as much as a Lubavitcher man. Although, I’m pretty certain that many Chabad women are more knowledgeable in Torah than other frum woman, as the Rebbe zy”a was very insistent on woman learning Torah, even Gemara.
Someone stick up for satmar!
It says so in the title of this thingy.
Syag, I’m really sorry to have gotten on your bad side in this thread since we were in agreement on everything beforehand. You should know from my other posts here and elsewhere that I fully agree with you when it comes to opinions of Lubavitcher’s views of other frum yidden; I’m just not sure that particular statement from Chabadshlucha warranted the response it got. Did you think she was singling out R. Eliyashiv for criticism? I truly didn’t take it that way; maybe I’m just being naive.
Chabadshlucha: This thread should at least somewhat open your eyes to the fact that Lubavitcher’s poor treatment of other frum yidden is not limited to a couple isolated incidents. Whenever Lubavitchers are asked to reconcile it, the response almost always involves a lecture on how much nicer they are to chilonim. That was the meaning on my comment.
No bad side, just felt you were taking the r’ elyashiv ztl example and making a point with it. No, they may not be quoting r elyashiv but the real topic was other gedolim or talmidei chachamim besides just their own RY, which they certainly do. And they ca even ID rabbeim from the chassidishe velt. Over focusing on it being about rev elyashiv diluted the point.
Nice to see ya again, stay a bit this time.
Someone stick up for satmar!
Cuz that’s the title on this thingy.
Sechel HaYashar-“Although, I’m pretty certain that many Chabad women are more knowledgeable in Torah than other frum woman, as the Rebbe zy”a was very insistent on woman learning Torah, even Gemara.”
Oh so its not only the chabad men, but also the chabad women who are superior to all other (“regular” non chabad) women. I rest my case. Disgusting.
“and we don’t have time to learn anything else…”
“Which is why nebach amaratzus is so rampant, and simple gemaras and Rambams are twisted out of their true meanings.”
Most women don’t have much time to learn.
Anyone who talks of “Yichus” just remember the Yichus of King Manasseh and the Yichus of Rebbe Akiva
Wondering how long it will take until the moderators decide to close this thread….
Ive been to those real outpost Chabad houses , the ones not in tourist areas and every drives to shul (The Rabbi asks everyone where they are from and when they tell him they live in a place that is 30 mins away by car, he isnt stupid) There is no way to support a chabad house with only 15 people unless there is a real givier when many places dont have
This thread is one hot mess
responses to responses that don’t follow the what the original response was for?!?! The posters are too charged to realize they’re saying things nor in relation to what they think they’re responding too. Sad even for an online forum
Sechel HaYashar-“Although, I’m pretty certain that many Chabad women are more knowledgeable in Torah than other frum woman, as the Rebbe zy”a was very insistent on woman learning Torah, even Gemara.”
“Oh so its not only the chabad men, but also the chabad women who are superior to all other (“regular” non chabad) women. I rest my case. Disgusting.”
He was responding to an attack on Chabad.
“Harv Yitzchak Isaac Chaver was the Friendlier Rebbe”
The only ר יצחק אייזיק חבר I am aware of was a מתנגד, although a Mekubal and gaon בנגלה as well – he was a talmid מתלמידי הגר”א… certainly no “Rebbe”
Was there another one!
Daas,
“Apikorsus”
You remind me of a story that happened in Brisk, the Gabai once announced a certain Chasid as in Cherem, the reason given “for he spoke אפיקורוסות”.
Rav Chaim Brisker who was there asked him, what exactly was the מינות ואפיקורסו? He replied the Chasid said that the Rebbe (of Slonim) is as big as רשב”י. Rav Chaim answered, had he said Rav Shimon is like the Rebbe..nu! Then yes.
But all he said is that his Rebbe is like Rabbi Shimon, nu he is “Stam a meshugenah’ though not an Apikorus!edited
Secondly, when I wrote about Torah knowledge of Chabad women, I specifically used the word “many” as not to exclude anyone. I haven’t gone around testing women in Crown Heights and Lakewood.
Thirdly, I wasn’t going to write that line at all, but decided to in respect of ChabadShlucha, who does seem on the learned side. Fourth, many many Chabad women have learned the entire Rambam (Yad Hachazaka) several times. I’m not showing superiority, I am stating fact. I have the utmost respect for all Yiddishe Kraizen, and in no way believe that Chabad is “the exclusive path”. I do believe one has an obligation to study about the greatness of Hashem, and contemplate on it, (See Sh”A Orach Chayim 61) and learning Chassidus is a great way to accomplish that. I respect Gedolei Yisrael, and in fact the Chafetz Chayim in particular is greatly revered in Chabad, the Rebbe zy”a spoke of him in glowing terms. The Rebbe had extensive communication with many Gedolei Yisrael of the past generation, and the love Harav Moshe Feinstein ztz”l had for the Rebbe is well known, he even started wearing Rabbeinu Tams tefilin daily at the Rebbes request. So please, look at the facts instead of blindlessly hating other Yidden, Yireim Ushleimim.“Someone should stick up for satmar…”
What is there to “stick up” for? They are mamash “real” chassidim…..the issue though is whether they are at the same madregah of chassidus as the guys with the yellow flags on Eastern Parkway…
“Harv Yitzchak Isaac Chaver was the Friendlier Rebbe”
The only ר יצחק אייזיק חבר I am aware of was a מתנגד, although a Mekubal and gaon בנגלה as well – he was a talmid מתלמידי הגר”א… certainly no “Rebbe”
Was there another one!
This is an example of people taking things too seriously
We spend most of our day ( around 7hrs of it) learning Gemara, with all the meforshim, including Reb Boruch Ber, Shiurei R Shmuel, R Chaim and many more.
I don’t know how many years bochurim keep this schedule, but it’s certainly fewer than even in the rest of the chassidishe velt, and certainly the yeshiva velt. That’s not even considering the difference in the schedule itself.
When I asked a Lubavicher chossid whether the benches in his beis medrash/shul were occupied with people learning at night, his answer was, “that’s not our focus”.
Most women don’t have much time to learn.
I took the “we” as a general statement.
DaasYochid – Can you clarify why you categorize the silly belief that someone who was niftar is still physically alive as being apikorsos? (L’havdil, are Jews who believe Elvis is alive apikorsum?)
The only logical reason I can think of for a mass belief that a man who clearly died according to any reasonable burden of proof (if he was married, his wife would be free to remarry, etc.) is that they think he’s immortal
The underlying psychology (lack of acceptance) might be similar to the Elvis phenomenon but it’s not the same hashkafically. I don’t think they’ve deified Elvis in any way. If they have, correct me.
This is an example of people taking things too seriously
Or just not getting the joke.
Did someone answer my question about “alive b’ruchnius” yet?
@daasyochid
As said I am happy to discuss all those kind of questions, but in a forum under it’s own topic and with people who are really interested to learn, and that can’t be accomplished in a one paragraph answer, where the readers are missing out on allot of the background concepts the writer is referring to
Because you still can write a letter stick in in the iggris koidesh or go to the ohel . And you can get a answer in different ways. Like a video,a letter,a dream, someone asking/telling you something . There are hundreds of ways ….
Let’s settle this. Find someone who is 200% Litvish – Yeshivish – Misnagdid to the core – stuck in a 19th century world view. Then ask him if someone is “Chasidish”.
The answer will be that Satmar, Lubavitch, Breslov and all the others are clearly “Hasidisch” (even if Chabad is also “Litvish).
Because you still can write a letter stick in in the iggris koidesh or go to the ohel . And you can get a answer in different ways. Like a video,a letter,a dream, someone asking/telling you something . There are hundreds of ways ….
Those aren’t ways in which he’s alive, those are ways in which you choose to interact with him as if he’s alive. You could do most of those with Elvis if you wanted to.
Akup,
“Let’s settle this. Find someone who is 200% Litvish – Yeshivish – Misnagdid to the core – stuck in a 19th century world view. Then ask him if someone is “Chasidish”.
The answer will be that Satmar, Lubavitch, Breslov and all the others are clearly “Hasidisch” (even if Chabad is also “Litvish).Interesting how many here are really confused and misinformed on this topic.
Just to give you an example – The Brisker Rav said in regards to the Cherim/ban of the GR”A and talmidim against “Chassidim”, that the ONLY ones that it really pertains to (at least in his times) are:
Chabad and Breslov”.
This was based on a Kabalah he had from Rav Chaim up onto Talmidei haGR”A – understanding what the Cherim was truly based on. (Note, and the Cherim was not really based upon what people think… )Meaning, that all the other ones, in essence, are not truly Chasidim as per the issues of the Gr”a, they just have a couple minhagim etc but not in theory and in essence.
Can someone explain with what and how exactly would you define, let’s say ‘Satmar’, as following the Derech Habesh”t vs a regular Yeshivish Charedi yungerman . And I’m not speaking about Nusach haTfilah, Rabenu Tam Z’man mincha after shkiah, (many think that has anything with “Chasidus” which is by far not), Havarah or Levush.
Note – At the times of the BESH”T all wore the same levush — even Misnagdim wore Shtreimlach. The only difference in levush was that they wore White Bekitches on Shabbos, something that has long been abolished…
Let’s hear details : “x” is Derech haGra and “z” is Derech HaBesh”T
The main confusion, based from I’m reading here, is that people have decided that Shitas haChasidus is based on X Y and Z , and based on that, Chabad or others do/don’t fit into that molding.
So first define what Chasidus is truly all about and THEN see who fits into that mold.
DaasYochid,
When I asked a Lubavicher chossid whether the benches in his beis medrash/shul were occupied with people learning at night, his answer was, “that’s not our focus”.
Did he happen to mention what their focus was?
From a Chabad standpoint, is it proper to write “the Rebbe [Menachem Mendel Schneerson] ZT”L”?
770Chabad,
Because you still can write a letter stick in in the iggris koidesh
Who do you believe reads the letter after it is placed?
or go to the ohel
Do you daven to Hashem there, or speak to the Rebbe?
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