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“post #1405695: “the friendlier rebbe” – was there really such a Rebbe?”
Typo for The Frierdike Rebbe (literally “the earlier Rebbe”)
“post #1405694: “chadimdim”
Typo for Chasidim.
“post #1405442″ “litvishe Chassidus” (isn’t that an oxymoron?)”
Some Chasiduses originate from the Lithuanian-region. i.e. Lubavitch and Stolin (among others.) There even was a Chasidishe community in Vilna.
I’m going to pop my head in just to say “Shkoyach” and “Hear hear!” to GadolHadorah for comment #1405940. Very well put!
I think it is pretty funny that someone above wrote that since chassidim and misnagdim are pretty much the same, and only Chabad is different, therefore when the litvisher oilem says chassidim they mean not Chabad. Obviously, it should be fakert. Since Chabad have stayed the course of Chassidus, and everyone else became Misnagdim but with better kugel, it , it turns out Chassidim and Chassidus more aptly describes Chabad.
I’m annoyed that people DID actually offer up points about why Chabad is separate from other chassidim other than just Levush, and yet all the counter arguments just focused on that one point to make it seem like an invalid argument.
Also, Chabad received harsh opposition from a lot of the other early Chassidim like Avraham of Kalisk. So, the assertion that NO chassidim would ever exist were it not for the Alter Rebbe (an assertion I’ve heard many times from Lubavitchers) is demonstrative of the characteristic lack of any sense of proportion.
I think the OP has his answer. Although, now that I’m apparently categorized as a follower of “Litvish Chassidus,” I guess anything goes; it’s open season on labeling people as Chassidim.
On last night’s kinus of the Chabad Shalichim (which is available via podcast) there was a brief clip of the Rebbe being asked to define what was meant by “being a chasid of the Rebbe”. He answered simply by saying “a chasid of mine is simply a yid helping another yid in need”. When you watch the news in EY with R’ Auerbach’s followers engaging in violence, property destruction, showing hatred of the medniah an disrupting the lives of hundreds of thousand of yidden and then watch a chabad shalicah helping yidden in the far corners of the world put on tefillin for the first time, its fairly straightforward what the Rebbe meant and what it means to be a Lubavitch “chassid” or whatever you want to call them. Do other chassidus engage in their own forms of positive engagement with other yidden…Yes, but not to the same degree. Do Litvish mosdos do good work for the tzibur? Yes, but again, not to the same degree.
Harv Yitzchak Isaac Chaver was the Friendlier Rebbe
5ish: Am I understanding your comment to mean that you believe that Lubavitch is the only real Chasidus, as all other Chasiduses essentially became Litvaks?
If so, could you explain how all the Chasidim other than Lubavitch became Misnagdim/Litvaks?
maskim with geordie, this turned into Bashland for no reason. Klal yisroel has enough prosecuters, please join me on my new journey and try to start being defense attorneys
its very sad that you characterize it that way. setting aside the nasty posters who show up everywhere there were some very real questions and concerns asked about some very real concepts and behaviors displayed, some that present themselves as serious apikorsus issues. Instead of addressing them, informing the public, putting the claims to rest finally, we just start screaming “hatred! finger pointing! anti Chabad!” rhetoric. I have asked some of these questions many many many times both here and in real life and I get nothing. we are allowed to question other people about what they do but if Gd forbid someone is concerned about Chabad minhag that they deem problematic, instead of settling the matter you throw the race card.
GH, who rarely speaks kindly of frum communities, somehow was extolling their virtues even to what I consider dangerous lengths. to call it torah true yiddeshkeit when some are unfortunately learning that they await the second coming of their rebbe as moshiach, ch”v is not torah true. and if it isn’t the case, stop avoiding the issue by calling me hateful and just explain it. This is real lifeexperiences guys, real life, not stuff on two burnt people rumored.Joseph, I did not mean that at all. I was saying that lefi the shita of the earlier poster, who said chassidim and litvaks are the same, it would make sense to call only Lubavitcher chassidim, and not only NOT Lubavitchers chassidim. Sorry for the confusion. The split in Chassidus is nothing new and goes back to the talmidim of the Maggid. The Baal Hatanya held that it is necessary for every person to study pnimiyus hatorah in order to do his own Avodah to reveal the law and awe in his heart for Hashem which will cause him to perform Mitzvos and learn Torah in the proper way. He was opposed by R’ Avrohom Kalisker, The Lechovitsher, The Stoliner, R’ Baruch Mezhibuzher, among other holy and saintly Jews who had a different derech. On the opposite extreme is the chassidus which comes primarily from students of the Noam Elimelech, who stressed that pnimiyus hatorah was mainly for higher ranking individuals, and rank and file chassidim and others are meant to connect to Hashem through being inspired by the Tzaddik and though his blessings for offspring, life, and sustenance. Despite these differences there are many things which all Chassidim have in common. I suspect the reason that many people think things are not too different between misnagdim and chassidim is due to them not being very familiar with the inner workings of chassidic courts and the chassidic lifestyle. Half of these things that people are making accusations as if they are just things Lubavitchers do, are things that are done in other courts. You all just do not know because other courts are insular and Chabad is open for the whole world to see.
Lol the ignorance and naive nature of these comments are just too amusing. Talking about “bashland”? Just go to one of the chabad sites or crown heights websites to be more specific, and then see what real bashing is coming from them.
Also check out that other community that extended from park slope. You can use that as a guideline to how much chabad loves everyone else.And to gadolhadorah- oh ya the kinnus was just wonderful, when is the other one? Oh you didn’t know about the other ? Ya there’s a separate one for the “antis” and “meshichist”. What a disgrace. Even the so called “shluchim” don’t get along amongst themselves. But then they lecture the litvish oilam or rest of anyone who isn’t chabad, about achdus. Go figure.
To be honest I don’t care about their politics but stop going out to everyone and trying to show how much “better” you re then everyone else
Hi, I decided syaglachochma is right and happy to take any questions. I’ve been following this forum for a bit, must say Joseph’s comments are mostly entertaining:) anyhow, happy to answer any questions. Both my parents are BTs and I’m married, on (chinuch) shlichus. Happy to join as love interacting with the greater chareidi world.
Hi Chabadshlucha,
Can you explain what a Geszhe is, how Geszhe are different than others Lubavitchers and whether the Geszhe have any unique minhagim than other Lubavitchers?
Has anyone heard of 70 panim L’Torah? Yes even lubavs should accept this as hard as it is, rather than forcing everyone and trying to persuade them to get “close” to chabad since their understanding is the only “true Torah”. Only then there will be no more arguments. It can be a beautiful thing where everyone has there own minhag but can also embrace each others as it’s always been. Unfortunately some feel a need to put the rest of the oilam down and try to prove how much everyone is wrong about everything. Try sitting at a shabbos table or farbrengen in crown heights without hearing the word “misnagdim” come up. You’ll lose count. I have been many many times. That is one thing you won’t see anywhere else, noone exhausts themselves at such great lengths to show others that they are “superior”. I wait for the day when I can talk to a chabadnick without them trying to convince me to “convert” to their derech.
Chabadshlucha,
I always wanted to know how Chabad survives in areas that dont have alot of rich people or tourists. The kind of places that MAYBE you can get 10 men for shabbos morning minyan if you are lucky. It cant be cheap to rent a shul and have to look the other way when you know that people are driving
Honestly, Chabad encompasses all kinds of people on all kinds of levels, because of who the Rebbe was. The lack of familiarity of other leaders within klal yisrael, for the most part, is not because we like to segregate ourselves, it’s just that there is so much going on within Lubavitch that we have our heads full keeping up with that.
For example, I would probably never quote R’ Elyashiv, not because I don’t think he’s great, I’m sure he is, and I know he’s a major figure in the litvishe world, but I’m still trying to keep up with saying my daily Chitas (portions of Chumash Tehillim and Tanya) and learning a sicha and or maamar of the Rebbe several times a week, which doesn’t leave me time to look into other things.
I feel chassidus empowers my avodas Hashem and I can’t get enough of it. I should add I have two young kids to look after so it makes for enough to fill up my time:) or even more, my concentration.
edited to prevent chashash apikorsus
Sure. As mentioned, I think, gezhe refers to Chabad chassidim who are part of a family chain (geza) of chassidim going way back. Usually used in comparison with terms of ffb, bt, yichus.
All Chabad children go to the same schools, seminaries, yeshivos etc, and can go on shlichus, depending on how badly they want to go, without distinction. The only time it really comes up is with shidduchim, and that is fair.
There is an advantage to families being compatible, if I would’ve married into a gezhe family, I wouldn’t feel my parents are on equal footing with my supposed in laws and that can get awkward.
My parents are amazing incredible people who turned their whole lives around to because frum and that is their advantage because they passed over to me the conviction that yiddishkeit is the best thing out there and the goyishe world is so empty, it has nothing substantial to offer me.
Otoh, I can’t compare their aidelkeit to the aidelkeit of a gezhe family…
There is also a difference in upbringing: gezhe people mainly raise their kids to toe the line of their ancestors, whereas BTs focus on rebelling against or revolutionizing the secular world…
But many gezhe people are open to their kids dating bts kids, just the bt background is understandably not seen as a plus in family compatibility.
As far as other differences, no unique minhagim other than family minhagim like what they can eat on pesach.
Hope this clarifies
How are Lubavitcher mikvas different than non-Lubavitcher mikvas (and why)? Who else has the shitta as Lubavitch regarding mikvas? Can Lubavitchers and non-Lubavitchers be yotzei using each others mikvas (rather than their own)?
Honestly, Chabad encompasses all kinds of people on all kinds of levels, because of who the Rebbe is. The lack of familiarity of other leaders within klal yisrael, for the most part, is not because we like to segregate ourselves, it’s just that there is so much going on within Lubavitch that we have our heads full keeping up with that.
For example, I would probably never quote R’ Elyashiv, not because I don’t think he’s great, I’m sure he is, and I know he’s a major figure in the litvishe world, but I’m still trying to keep up with saying my daily Chitas (portions of Chumash Tehillim and Tanya) and learning a sicha and or maamar of the Rebbe several times a week, which doesn’t leave me time to look into other things.
I feel chassidus empowers my avodas Hashem and I can’t get enough of it. I should add I have two young kids to look after so it makes for enough to fill up my time:) or even more, my concentration.speechless.
I won’t go so far to say your post is condescending, but I would have a hard time believing it rings true even in your own ears. Unless you just believe we are very, very simple people.
And btw, I have 9 of my own and somehow have time and energy for all kinds of things, B”H. I must be an anomoly“it’s just that there is so much going on within Lubavitch that we have our heads full keeping up with that” -chabadshlucha
Wow what an arrogant statement. You have so much to do in the “Great world of lubavitch” that you just don’t have time or a need to quote other Gedolei Yisrael. But you do have time to preach to all the “bored” litvishers who have nothing to do in their meaningless non-chabad lives, and to convince them to learn your seforim/hashkafa and quote your rebbeim. I find that pretty interesting. You gave yourself away pretty quick revealing your true mindset.
Oh and you go on “I would probably never quote R’ Elyashiv, not because I don’t think he’s great, I’m sure he is, and I know he’s a major figure in the litvishe world, but I’m still trying to keep up with saying my daily Chitas (portions of Chumash Tehillim and Tanya) and learning a sicha and or maamar of the Rebbe several times a week, which doesn’t leave me time to look into other things.”
Interesting. Nice to know that you don’t have time to waste with other tzaddikims work, Chofetz Chaim, GR”A, Chasam Sofer, Chazon Ish just to name a few. Do you think that the rest of the oilam DON’T DO ANYTHING? We learn all day without needing your suggestions that we should learn your seforim as well! But that you always make time for. So just as you don’t and never will name or quote a Gadol Hador a Tzaddik from outside of lubavitch, don’t expect us to do any different. And then you rant about how artscroll doesn’t mention chabad rebbeim. Maybe it’s because they don’t have “time” to look into chabad teachings. Sound familiar? Stop trying to fool everyone on this forum and elsewhere in the world. I have lived in crown heights for many years and I know both sides. I know chabad inside and out. Even some within chabad will admit the problem with the superiority outlook. Very few though. But people like you will always defend no matter what in order to fool everyone and always act as a victim. I know it’s easiest to blame everything on others. See everyone hates chabad! You will shout. Get over it noone has time to even think about you for good or the bad.
Because not chabad mikvahs is build side by side the 2 mivkvas and in chabad it’s build “on top” of the other .
I’m sure they can be yoitze milvah using not chabad mikvah
And just two things I’m going to say in one sentence each if you want to know more you can look it up.
1. The rebbe said whoever learns my chassidis (and does my mivtziom is my chossid ) that means anyone from willi to Lakewood .
And 2. A chossid is a lamplighter . What is a lamplighter …. I’m not going to post the story now it’s long maybe I’ll do it later in a few comments“There is an advantage to families being compatible, if I would’ve married into a gezhe family, I wouldn’t feel my parents are on equal footing with my supposed in laws and that can get awkward.”
if my kids felt that way about me it would be a lot worse than awkward, it would be downright hurtful. Who encourages such a caste system? I didn’t believe it when the poster said it, but anyone who can speak like this about their own parents…wow. They must be very proud of the path you’ve chosen.
Thank you for alerting me to the fact that you changed a word of me, and kindly explaining why. I specifically used that word because I am ready to discuss it, an I don’t think a lack of knowledge of passages of the Zohar and gemara that are famous within the Lubavitch world should lead to achashash apikorsus chas vsholom. All the same, I appreciate that maybe now is not the time to discuss everything, but maybe in the future you can call me out on any statement I make instead of deleting it? Otherwise how do we learn?
“70 facets of the Torah” does not mean that in every issue there will always be various acceptable opinions. There is always an ebb and flow of arguments which diversify and are eventually unified. Just like Shammi and Hillel and their students respectively were great scholars and holy people, does not mean we say “shivim panim latorah, and I choose to follow beis shammai” and the same can be said for many machlokesin throughout all of Jewish history. The fact is that The Baal Shem Tov, the Maggid, and some (if not all) of their successors believed that Chassidus is THE WAY not A WAY, and the ideal derech for klal yisroel and all Jews is Chassidus. The Baal Hatanya and his successors believed this and went to great length to spread Chassidus as widely as possible.
Most of the arguments being advanced by “litvisherchossid” are the very same arguments which were made against the Besht, and against the Maggid, and against every rebbe and group of chassidim who showed up in any town in Europe. You are reiterating two hundred year old arguments of holy misnagdim, and unholy maskilim. That is certainly your right, but let us not play pretend like Lubavitcher chassidim suddenly started to act in a certain way.
You never heard of people looking in to yichus? You never heard of people wanting to marry people with similar life experiences and upbringing? You think rabbinical hierarchies don’t exist in the world? You think other Jews don’t think certain issues are core to religion and are correct to the exclusion of others opinions? You don’t know Jews who hold that the yeshiva/kollel lifestyle is a chiyuv? Don’t know anyone who says Zionism is assur? Kanois is mandatory? You have to serve in the Israeli army because it’s a mitzvah? There are all sorts of hashkafos and halachic opinions that are propagated by rabbonim as being a chiyuv on all Jews. So Chabad holds that a person has to learn Chabad chassidus.
Get your head out of the sand man. L’chaim!
“Do you think that the rest of the oilam DON’T DO ANYTHING? We learn all day without needing your suggestions that we should learn your seforim as well!”
So you don’t want us to suggest what you should learn, but you seem to believe really strongly that you should suggest to us what to learn? That seem’s pretty hypocritical to me.
As long as it’s kosher, it’s kosher, so of course we can be yotze. The reason we prefer using a Lubavitch mikva is because of the hiddurim involved which basically make it that a woman toivels within the bor itself. This is accomplished by it being built bor Al gabei bor, and the bottom one is cold, and 80 seah, so no chashash of the original 40 being whittled to less than the shiur. Also the water filled in on top is hot, while the bottom is cold, so that avoids mixing.
This avoids many problematic issues involved with other kosher mikvaos such as the one that’s next to the bor with a hole in between, kept apart with a plug- let’s say the mikva lady forgets to remove the plug CVS, then the woman didn’t toivel in a mikvah because it wasn’t connected to the bor… There are other issues with the other prototypes, and this model was developed to avoid all issues
5ish – you shouldn’t say “we”. You have never, in any of your postings, conveyed any type of snobbery, condescention or superiority. You have always been kind and thoughtful and nothing about your posts would resemble these.
Wow I’m sorry to have offended you. I can only speak for myself and try to be in line with what the Rebbe would have said, and I’m not perfect and I’m glad you seem to have the expectation that all lubavitchers since be angels, but unfortunately, we are very human, and of course there will be some arrogant people or whatever other chesronios. But we also, as all of us here, have many more maalos:) All I’m trying to say is that people need to learn what speaks to their neshama and inspires then to serve Hashem. For me, that’s chassidus, and I can’t get enough of it because there are at least hundreds of volumes of chabad chassidus. When I learn chassidus, I feel how it changes my world view and avodas Hashem for the better. That’s why I don’t focus on any other mussar- etc. Because I have my hands full as I said. If learning sifrei mussar does that for you, then that’s great.
I do still feel that everyone should learn chassidus but that’s not because I think it’s the only thing with value. Chas vsholom! Any Torah refines a person. Just we learn the conversation between the Baal Shem tov and Moshiach, on Rosh Hashana kuf chof zayin I believe, since we’re every young, and based on Moshiachs answer to the Baal Shem tov s question of Aimosai kosi Mar? When will the Master come? Moshiach answered “Lichsheyofutzu maayenosecha chutza” when your wellsprings (of chassidus) will spread out.” So the Rebbeim have taught us that it is imperative for us to spread chassidus everywhere. But chas vsholom to suggest that anything else is not Torah.
Without saying chabadniks are “better” than other chassidus, segments of the litvish tzibur, etc. the only point several of us are making is that its rare to see them mamash fighting among themselves for control of a particular shul in Monsey, in the civil courts for control of the assets of the chassidus (not that anyone really would fight over 770) or violently demonstrating in the streets calling members of the IDF and police “Nazis” etc. Are some portions of their hashkafah a bit over the top (e.g. running up and down Eastern Parkway with yellow flags alerting us to Moishiach having been sighted on the Long Island Expressway)…perhaps yes but still I don’t know of other segment of the tzibur with such ahavas yisroel . End of story….nothing more to say.
Yeah it’s very sad when the yetzer hara gets in the way. My teacher showed us a handwritten note of the Rebbe when I was in high school, that said (in yiddish) “The yetzer hara saw that Moshiach is almost here so he laid himself across the threshold of the doorway, and sought to create machlokes… And rachmona litzlan he succeeded.”
Although interesting you mention the small breakaway kinus because just this year, I saw a video going around on WhatsApp that looks like the main speaker was calling for an end to this foolishness and that chassidim should all learn the sichos (talks) of the Rebbe together, and work together to discuss the best way to implement it.
Honestly I love my parents and they to me them proud and I don’t think this is an insult. They themselves are baalei teshuva, but they would prefer their kids don’t marry baalei teshuva, but ffb. And it’s obviously not because anything is won’t with baalei teshuva, it’s just about compatibility. Baalei teshuva usually click with other baalei who can understand their past, identify with their struggles, chuckle appreciatively when they mention a TV show they’ve seen… All things that I would not be able to do. But it doesn’t mean gezhe people are greater than baalei teshuva, only Hashem knows, but in general, bmakom shebaalei teshuva omdim tzaddikim gemurim ainom yecholim laamod, because they turned their whole lives around for Hashem, usually against all odds, and have to second guess every decision they make… It’s definitely not easy and I’m very proud of my parents and hope they are just as proud of me
*Tof kuf zayin
In 1907, when Rabbi Sholom DovBer of Lubavitch was staying at the health spa in Wirtzburg, Germany, a group of chassidim came to spend a Shabbos with the Rebbe. Among them was Reb Yosef Yuzik Horowitz, his son-in-law Reb Feivel Zalmanov, and Reb Elimelech Stoptzer.
The Rebbe prayed for many hours that Shabbos morning, as was his manner. Meanwhile, the chassidim made kiddushand consumed a respectable quantity of ‘l’chayim’s. Later, when the Rebbe had finished and they sat with him to the Shabbos meal, Reb Yosef Yuzik asked:
“Rebbe, what is a chassid?”
Replied the Rebbe: ” A chassid is a lamplighter. The lamplighter walks the streets carrying a flame at the end of a stick. He knows that the flame is not his. And he goes from lamp to lamp to set them alight.”
Asked Reb Yosef Yuzik: “What if the lamp is in a desert?”
“Then one must go and light it,” said the Rebbe. “And when one lights a lamp in a desert, the desolation of the desert becomes visible. The barren wilderness will then be ashamed before the burning lamp.”
Continued the chassid: “What if the lamp is at sea?”
“Then one must undress, dive into the sea, and go light the lamp.”
“And this is a chassid?” Reb Yosef Yuzik asked.
For a long while the Rebbe thought. Then he said: “Yes, this is a chassid.”
“But Rebbe, I do not see the lamps!”
Answered the Rebbe: “Because you are not a lamplighter.”
“How does one become a lamplighter?”
“First, you must reject the evil within yourself. Start with yourself, cleanse yourself, refine yourself, and you will see the lamp within your fellow. When a person is himself coarse, G‑d forbid, he sees coarseness; when a person is himself refined, he sees the refinement in others.”
Reb Yosef Yuzik then asked: “Is one to grab the other by the throat?”
Replied the Rebbe: “By the throat, no; by the lapels, yes.”
Copyright: chabad.orgIs this to long ?
what an offensive post to every baal tshuva and their family. and yes, even those lowly ones who may accidentally mention a tv show and hope for a snicker.
I’m wondering if perhaps this isn’t the right audience for your responses.
I should mention I did take part in a WhatsApp group that studied the chofetz chaim, I’ve read oz vhadar levusha by R Falk, and when I learn Chumash I learn general mefarshim, and obviously with any part of nigle I study. I was just trying to explain why some chabad people seem clueless- like I heard of R’ Elyashiv for the first time in eleventh grade- anyhow not trying to repeat everything all over… Just saying it’s not intentional like we don’t learn that, it’s just we have so much Lubavitch in our lives. Maybe this is comparable to a Lakewood person not knowing all the chiddushim and positions of R Ovadiah Yosef?
Chabadshlucha & 770Chabad:
1) What is the disagreement between the Lubavitcher “meshichists” and the Lubavitcher non-meshichists? 2) Do all Lubavitchers believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach? 3) Do you believe the Rebbe is Moshiach?
Joseph: I hope you don’t actually not know about the differences with Chabad mikvehs and that the question was purely academic. We can NOT be yotzei on Chabad Mikvehs, I heard even b’dieved, but maybe it’s possible to get a heter in some situation. The holes in Chabad mikvehs are on the floor; the natural water is underneath instead of beside. The logic is exactly as Chabadshlucha described above. I struggle to see how making a new mikveh design different from that used for centuries “avoids issues” though.
P.S. To straddle the line and make everyone mad at me like I always do: I think people are being a little hard on Chabadshlucha. I don’t think she meant to be arrogant in saying she wouldn’t quote non-Chabad rabbis. Just like we don’t cherry pick minhagim at our leisure, they also stick to their’s. Chabad takes it a bit further with the concept of being “bittul to the Rebbe,” which seems to imply that they don’t learn any Torah by which they don’t hold; they only lean shittahs that they would apply practically. It would be like saying “I only learn Mishnah Berurah and no other commentaries because it’s what I hold to be halachah l’maseh.” It’s a foreign concept to Litvaks, but I doubt they’re the only Chassidim with this approach. Do you really think Belzers, Satmars, Bobovers, etc would quote HaRav Eliyashiv either?
I’m pretty sure a shliach will only settle in a place that has enough Jews to sustain his family. That’s policy. Now you don’t see them all in shul (at least in the beginning) because some of them don’t even know what shul is. Like both my parents never heard of Yom Kippur before they met a shliach.
Many shluchim start off with enough money to last a year, either savings, or now I think there may be grants available. After that they need to fundraise locally. So many shluchim don’t start off renting- they’ll give classes from their house and house the shul there as well. As time goes on and more people hopefully get involved and support their activities, they’ll expand, and keep on expanding with Hashem s help.
@Syag lachochma- I’m sorry if I struck a personal nerve. I should clarify that many of my own friends yell at me that there should not be any such thing as family consideration aka gezhe/ffb vs bt background in shidduchim, and many of the gezhe people believe so as well. Personally it makes sense to me but I should clarify that that’s my personal opinion.
For example the shluchim who mkareved my own father, and are well known and respected throughout the chareidi world, the husband is from a very gezhe family of chassidim from the chassidishe town of nevel, while the wife is herself a baalas tshuva who became one with her on when she was 12 years old.
OK, I can see that a lot of posts went through before I hit submit on my last one and many more are awaiting moderation, so the tone might have changed a bit; in particular stuff like: ” I don’t know of other segment of the tzibur with such ahavas yisroel . End of story….nothing more to say.”
Chabadshlucha: I still think you were probably pushed over the edge further than you wanted by this thread, but I hope you can see that it’s comments like that from Lubavitchers, whether provoked or not, that irk the rest of us. Having ahavas Yisroel for chilonim does not exempt you from having to have ahavas Yisroel for the rest of the frum world.
Mishichists and anti don’t hate eachother and get along. But it depends on how. Like regular mishichist and a regular not won’t argue with eachother . But strong mishichist and a strong anti probably won’t get along with eachother . U can have a mishichist and a anti mishichist in the same family but that is very rare to be honest .
Chabad shlicha- so you don’t have time to learn any other seforim and yet you still insist everyone should learn yours. Very well. Also you say you don’t mean that it’s the only thing people should learn, you and many others demonstrate otherwise.
Gadolhadorah- I think you should stay out of arguments on topics you know nothing about. I don’t know if your some sort of chabad BT or chabad friendly but here’s the truth and sorry if this comes as a shock to you. You write “mamash fighting among themselves for control of a particular shul in Monsey, in the civil courts for control of the assets of the chassidus (not that anyone really would fight over 770)”
Really? Noone would ever fight for control over 770! Get on their websites or speak to any lubavitchers. There is a court case going on as we speak for control of 770! And not everything has to be violent to be considered the worst. It is quite known that after the Rebbe there were 2 wills and one of the wills was never to be found since some people made sure it disappeared. That is worse than violence. Talk about chutzpah and to your own Rebbe by your own chassidim! There is a lot more than you think going on behind the scenes even though you are not aware. Ask any lubavitcher they know. Also they had violence when bochurim took control of one of the mikvas in crown heights and there was even egg throwing in 770 during davening shomeh esreh it’s on YouTube. Sorry for the many things they don’t tell you there. Much violence between”tzfatim meshichist” and antis. Daily even.
Besides just because peleg or whoever act violently doesn’t mean everyone but chabad is responsible for their actions. Most places Lakewood,Monsey,boro park,flatbush,queens,Baltimore and so on get along just fine. THe unfairness is that chabad/crown heights is one tiny community and you compare one community to many others and treat them as a whole.Chabad vs the rest of the Velt. That’s the main issue this thread is discussing.
Some shluchim have less then 300 Jews where they live and 300 is a small number
“Having ahavas Yisroel for chilonim does not exempt you from having to have ahavas Yisroel for the rest of the frum world.”
Why do you think Chabad doesn’t have ahavas yisroel for the frum world?
Some people (tzfati to be exact) believe the rebbe is alive bigashmious while everyone else believes he’s alive beruchnious.
Siyag, unless I missed something, what offensive was said about Baleei Teshuva? Most frum people i know, whether they be yeshivish guys, lubavitchers, modern orthodox, etc etc don’t marry people from different backgrounds than them.
We are commanded to learn chitas every day…. so we do… and we don’t have time to learn anything else…. besides sic his and maamorim
@nevillechaimberlin
1) I’m surprised to hear you think you cannot use a Chabad mikva unless in extreme situations maybe, do you know of any halachic basis for that? Because like I said and explained, this prototype avoids problems found with the other ones without putting any new ones.2) I appreciate your support as I don’t want to be misunderstood, and I think that if I was super arrogant etc. Then I wouldn’t comment on this forum. My family and my in laws family has many friends in Satmar, and I grew up for a time in Postville where there was a wonderful Geula-like mix of all types of frum Yidden together.
That being said, I’m somewhat of an intellectual and enjoy discussion, so no, I was not pushed over the edge- I merely just don’t want to be misunderstood- but very much enjoy the discussion.
Also totally don’t get the non Ahavas yisroel part- please let me know where you think I failed in that? Because you’re 100% right, Ahavas Yisrael is the basis of everything, as Rabbi Akiva said- ze klal gadol baTorah.
Joseph- you have valid questions and I would love to address them. I’m afraid my time is up for today, and anyway we have gone way off topic from the original OP.
So if you really would like a deep discussion on that with sources etc, maybe open a new one and I’ll check back tomorrow or whenever I can:)
True story
My daughter worked at B&H in manhattan.
One day after she came home from work she
Tells me , Ta I saw someone wearing tfillin in the late afternoon. She wanted to know how someone can wear it so late.
I told her it must have a chassidesh man putting on רבינו תם תפילין.She said ” no it was a Lubavitcher ”
I told her that is the worst thing you can say to a Lubavitcher, I always tell this story to Lubavitchers.
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