Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch?

Lubavichers refer to themselves as Chassidim.

In general when people use Chassidish, they dont seem to refer to Chabad, Chabad seems to get its own niche

I dont think Brezlov counts either

As a practical matter I believe the litvish oilom do not intend to include chabad when they refer to chasidim. The reason is that nowadays misnagdim and chasidim ( i.e. satmar, Ger, Skvere, Belz , etc.) have a very similar approach to yiddishkite which transcends any differences in dress or women driving cars.
Countless non –Chasidim daven in chassidish shtbuls (e.g. satmar minyan in Lakewood) and learn pretty much the same derech and learningthe same rishonim and achronim.(much of the Mesifta gemoras were written by hundreds of chassidishe yinglite in Eretz Yisroel).
.Lubavich , on the other hand. has deliberately chosen to remain different. Without judging,and recognizing the wonderful work they have done, it is beyond dispute that their yeshivos have an entirely different curriculum and agenda than other frum yeshivas .They never accepted daf yomi and for the most part, do not learn sugyas the way the rest of the frum word does. Nor do they participate in events coordinated by litvish and chassidish leaders.
I try do my part to close this chasm by learning 4x a week with a Lubacicher who is always imprressed when hearing a nice pshat in a sUgya from e.g. the Brisker Rov, or R’ Borech Ber .

ZD: Breslevers like Rabbi Yaavok Meir Schechter would count as Chassidim along with any old-school Breslevers that speak Yiddish etc. I assume what you’re referring to are the neo-Chassidish Breslevers like Na Nachs and the Chassidishly-influenced, in which case I agree. I think we’re on the same page, I just wanted to clarify that.

The difference is that Chabad has both Neo-Chassidim (who are definitely not real Chassidim) and old school Lubavitchers who are still completely different from the rest of Chassidim.

First of all we are chassiddim don’t don’t ever call us not chassiddim. We speak Yiddish in some of our schools but learn in Yiddish in all our schools and s few differences between us and litvish is that we all have beards and long ones and our hat is very similar to litvish. The “pinch” in our hat is very noticeable. And you can tell a Lubavitcher a mile a way weather male of female. And 2 the boys are not allowed to learn any English on Yeshiva / cheider while ny other chassidim they learn till 6th grade.

Sorry I didn’t mean to write “don’t” twice and the “s” on second line is a typo and the a got left out of any on the last line

Chochom, the question wasn’t whether they are or arent chassidim. The question is, when people (non chabad) are talking and say the word “chassidim”, are they generally including chabad in the comment? Like, “Boro park is mostly chassidish nowadays”. He isn’t including chabad, even though, yes, chabad are also chassidim.

What’s gimmel Tammuz? What’s yud tes Kislev?

In popular expression, no it doesn’t. Should it? One hundred percent! What are Chassidim if not for Chassidus? It’s deeper than Levush and Yiddish (to be sure, many, many Lubavitchers speak Yiddish at home) it’s a hashkafa, a worldview. FYI, in Chabad Yeshivas most if the day is spent learning Gemara biyun, in a very similar style to the Litvishe Yeshivas. And also, plenty of Lubavitchers learn Daf Yomi.
Ps, Lubavitchers commenting here (girls I’m assuming) you need to realize most of the world doesn’t understand our lingo, “hiskashrus”, or our special days “yud test Kislev” etc.
Also, to the commenter who said Chabad relys on the Gras zmanim, our shita is the Shulchan Aruch Harav ,which the Magid of Mezritch instructed to be compiled for all Chassidim, happens to be the Gra paskened the same way.

One can’t define “Chasidic” based on language or fashion in clothes. While one can choose to dress like other hasidim, that is constantly changing, as are all fashions. Chasidim are more likely to speak Yiddish than other Jews, but it is a correlation not a hard and fast rule.

For Ashkenazim, using Nusach Sfard (a.k.a. Nusach Ari’zel) is a good indication, but many people daven their family’s nusach, so all this may indicate that an ancestor was chasidic, or not. Regarding kabalah as something important that should affect daily life is a good sign, except that unless a Chasid is a Ben Torah he won’t know the sources of his minhagim, and non-hasidim also have many minhagim based on kaballah only they don’t emphasize it. Favorably regarding the Baal Shem Tov (and other early Hasidim) is a strong indicator, since the yeshiva world traditionally had a negative view of them. Regarding a “Rebbe” as the Gadol ha-Dor is a big factor, but some such as the Satmar Rebbe were leaders of a broader community that including Misnagdim who shared his political views. Having a “rebbe” is very hasidic, but many yeshivish people treat their Rosh Yeshiva in the same way.

And one could argue that the difference between Hasidic and non-Hasidic is largely historical, and in the future the major “line” within the frum community will be based on zionist/non-zionist or perhaps American/Israeli, and that Hasidic/Misnagdid distinctions are really a relic from the 19th century.

And one could argue that the difference between Hasidic and non-Hasidic is largely historical, and in the future the major “line” within the frum community will be based on zionist/non-zionist or perhaps American/Israeli, and that Hasidic/Misnagdid distinctions are really a relic from the 19th century.

You already see the Yeshivish and Chassidish (Not Lubavich) getting more and more together . You saw at the Asifa Rav Matisyau Salomon working together with the Skulener Rebbe

woah Geordie – I don’t know why I was surprised to see that post coming from you.
As the question was about whether or not a person refers to a lubavitcher when they say chassidim, I wpuld say absolutely not. I live in an area with a strong lubavitch presence and based on their dress, lack of familiarity with gedolei hador, segregation from Jews and Jewish activities, and seclusion from the general kehilla among other things, it never in a million years would have occurred to me that they were chassidim. Not only that, but I find it shocking that they would consider that offensive. Why do you care what my perception is? Especially when you live on my block with 8 other frum families and don’t let your children play with any of our kids? The whole premise makes no sense. If you are concerned that people you don’t speak to should know more about you there is probably a really simple solution to that!

As a Lubavitcher, I agree with syag, although we are chasiddim I usually do not think when people say chadimdim they mean Lubavitchers.

Yahrtzeit of the rebbe, I think

The Alter Rebbe was sent to Jail because he opposed Napoleon. During the Napoleonic wars Napoleon spread the ideas of the French Revolution . He basically empancipated the Jews. The Alter Rebbe opposed the Emancipation of the Jews. The Alter Rebbe supported the Ancien Regimes of the European Autocrats epecially the Czar

“Left us? He went on vacation? Why can’t you just say it normally – the day he passed away, his yahrtzeit.
And why don’t you say the Rebbe “zt”l”??”

I am very much hoping you get a response instead of a “YWN hates Chabad” deflection.

Gezh means by some ppl that u r chabad on both sides all the way back. And other people define it as your grandfathers and great grandfathers learned in Neville.

I’ve not heard “left us” used for anyone else, and have seen zt”l used for others.

I’ve heard left us used for many tzaddikim but never heard a reluctance to use zt’l.

So you heard some shmutz from a few people who unfortunately where hurt,. there are plenty of “geshza” who do not marry geshza, and in every community there are families who feel they can only marry other special families sometimes right sometimes not, and many times it’s a religious consideration, they want there child to have a very chasidisha home, I do not see anything wrong with wanting the best for your child.

Everyone is entitled to have standards. But for the organization that prides itself on accepting everyone to have a clearly defined and labeled class system, which there definitely is as you pretty much admitted, whether it is observed 100% or not, that smells to me of hypocrisy.

It has nothing to do with accepting someone, you can accpect someone and still know he is not for your son/daughter.
And talk with anybody in any community will tell you, they have similar issues when it comes to shiduchim

Gadolhadorah- you obviously are not knowledgeable enough in the matter. Shlichus became a celebrity status. Its a great benefit to show compassion and an open ear to a vulnerable non frum person, and then receive a 2 million dollar donation from them to build yourself a huge shul/building and get your name out there.

On another note, reviewing the other knowledgeable comments here, it is quite interesting how everyone gets along with each other, but chabad keep to themselves, not even letting their kids play with the non chabad kids on the block when they live amongst other Yidden.(Litvishe)

And then they complain about how the whole world “hates” them and criticizes them. Id like to know what kind of he**storm would be raised if a Young Israel would try to open up in crown heights. Ya, but its always ok for chabad houses to open up in the most litvish of areas. Ya, even in Lakewood.
Yet its everyone else who “hates” chabad, not the other way around.
Sometimes I almost go as far as getting upset when I hear and see how much respect people give to chabad, and I think in my heart if only they knew how much Lubavitchers look down upon them.
I know the deal firsthand. Its a real shame.
And it hurts me to write this but I cannot take these coverups.

A More modern community did open up in Crown Heights, it was an extension from park Slope. That community built and Eruv and there was an unfortuante clash

Why do we need to accentuate differences between groups of Yiedden?! All the criticisms mentioned here about Chabad Lubavitch also apply in some way or form to another group in Frum Yiddishkeit.
Let’s have a thread to show how much Hashem’s children love each other instead!!
To answer the OP, I’ll say, “Well, yes and no, depends on the context.” Other than that I’m out of this machlokes discussion.
Bye!