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however they have to be the ones that practice what they preach
true – in that case perhaps its not a good idea – lol, based on my 6 rs in brooklyn anyway…becasue i don’t think they will practice what they preach. Everyone that has ever left brooklyn for a suburban community feels the same way about BK.
Why do tons of frum OOT’ers, young and old alike, keep moving into Brooklyn?
When I was a bales teshuva, I thought this practice (as described by the OP- of ignoring another Yid) must be normal amongst the heimishe because that was the way they welcomed me. I got stares, I got cold unsmiling faces staring at me in public, at parties, on the street, in the grocery store lines, but never a hello. I felt very sad and alone.
Some even had the ill manners and chutzpah to whisper right in front of me, to one another about who and what I was.
One of the only and very few women who did approach me in the shul shabbos did so only to inform me, by whispering in my ear after davening “You need to cover your sheital with a tichel”.
After I had already been coming to shul for some time, I saw how they welcomed another stranger. SHe was obviously an Israeli, a new comer, she didn’t have a clue as to the halachas of tznius, she sat in Eliyhu Ha Navi’s beinkel in the Vobish, (since she didn’t know what it was for).
After davening she was surrounded by a few yentas interrogating her as to who she was, and (what she was doing there). What made me sick and angry was afterwards, a conversation I overheard by some of the posh and snobby better ladies during the Kiddush. One was saying “Yes, but WHY would she COME here?”
I mean, it is a shul isn’t it? It is after all G-d’s house isn’t it? I mean it is shabbos isn’t it? I mean she did say she was an out of towner, staying alone in a hostel, didn’t she? I mean we are all jews, aren’t we? OK…SO …whats her question again?
Not one person invited her. Not one person even asked her to join the kiddush. They just do not know how to do it. THis culture has no idea of how to welcome a stranger. Its not a part of this culture. Even though we were once strangers in Mitzrayim.
Although ok, don’t get me wrong, there are always just people with bad middos, and then there are those who absolutely step up and go the extra mile. Its just that its the exception and not the rule, which is the problem, and its also a problem that when they do act this way its very very disturbing.
Let me not make it look that EVERYONE IS THE SAME. some folks were nice to me. Some tried to talk to me. But most stayed away.
ARWSF,
L’Havdil, when my wife came to shul one week where theree were a lot of ladies in shul (she came by laining and wanted to start davening) the rebitzen pulled her over to all the other ladies to introduce her to everybody that she couldn’t daven
Oh please! As if As if a Chassidish guy dressed in his Chassidish garb from head to toe wouldnt get stares in a modern orthodox shul! Would anyone go over to him? Would people wonder whats HE doing HERE? How many people would say hello and ask him if he needs a Seuda?
Lets face it, all of our communities need to work on being more accepting and less judgmental. However since we are all just Yechidim the only thing we can do is change OURSELVES. If enough Yechidim change themselves it will rub off on everyone else and every community as a whole will have a greater sensitivity of Ahavas Yisroel and Hachnosas Ohrchim.
theres a famous made up story called Moshiach’s Hat
I’ll post below
“Twas the night of the Geulah, – And in every single Shtiebel. Sounds of the Torah could be heard coming from every kind of Yeedel.
This one in English Some in Hebrew, some in Yiddish. Some saying Pshat And some saying a Chiddish. And up in Shamayim The Aibishter decreed: “The time has come for My Children to be freed.”
“Rouse the Moshiach From his heavenly berth. Have him get in his chariot, And head down to earth.” The Moshiach got dressed And with a heart full of glee, Went down to earth and entered The first Shtiebel he did see.
“I am the Moshiach! Hashem has heard your plea! Your Geulah has come! It’s time to go free!” They all stopped their learning; This was quite a surprise. And they looked at him carefully, With piercing sharp eyes.
“He’s not the Moshiach!” Said one with a grin, “Just look at his hat, At the pinches and brim!” “That’s right!” cried another With a grimace and frown, “Whoever heard of Moshiach With a brim that’s turned down?”
“Well,” thought Moshiach, “If this is the rule, I’ll turn my brim up Before I go to the next shul.” So he walked right on over To the next shul in town. Sure to be accepted, Since his brim was no longer down. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, As he began to enter, But the Jews wanted to know first If he was Left, Right, or Center.
“You’re clothes are so black!” They cried out in fright. “You can’t be Moshiach You’re much too far right!” “If you want to be Moshiach, You must be properly outfitted.” So they replaced his black hat with a kippah that was knitted. Wearing his new Kippah, Moshiach went out and said: “No difference to me what I wear on my head.”
So he went to the next shul, For his mission was dear, But he was getting frustrated with the Yidden down here. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, And they all stopped to stare, And a complete eerie stillness filled up the air.
“You’re the Moshiach?! just imagine that! Whoever heard of Moshiach – without a black hat?!” “But I do have a hat!” the Moshiach then said. So he pulled it right out and plunked it down on his head.
The shul started laughing, And one said: “where’s your kop?” You can’t have a Moshiach With a brim that’s turned up!” “If you want to be Moshiach And be accepted in this town, Put some pinches in your hat And turn that brim down!”
Moshiach walked out and said: “I guess my time hasn’t come. I’ll just have to return to where I came from.” So he went to his chariot, But as he began to enter, All sort of Jews appeared From the Left, Right, and Center.
“Please wait – do not leave. It’s all their fault!” they said, And they pointed to each other And to what was on each other’s head. Moshiach just looked sad And said, “you don’t understand.”
And then started up his chariot to get out of this land. “Yes, it’s very wonderful That you all learn Torah, But you seem to have forgotten a crucial part of our Mesorah.
“What does he mean?” “what’s he talked about?” And they all looked bewildered, And all began to shout. Moshiach looked back and answered, “The first place to start, Is to shut up your mouths and open up your hearts. “To each of you, certain Yidden Seem too frum or too frei, But all yidden are beloved In the Aibishter’s eye.”
And on his way up he shouted: “If you want me to come, Try working a little harder On some Ahavat Chinam!”
sorry I just think it drives the point home
AWWSF, did you invite her?
I just have one question. Granted, everyone should be more welcoming to newcomers, but who said that he got ignored because of his srugi, maybe he got ignored like everyone who is new?
Make that two questions, everyone complains about yidden about not being welcoming to strangers, but when terrible incidents like the one we had this summer, everyone whines that you have to be careful and you cant trust anyone.
FIRST OF ALL KENSINGTON IS A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD!SECOND OF ALL THE BLOCK THEY MOVED ONTO ONLY HALF THE BLOCK IS JEWISH AND ALOT ARE AWAY NOW.THIRD,THIS PAST SHABBOS MY HUSBAND NOTICED A NEW FACE IN SHUL(THE HUSBAND) AND WENT OVER TO HIM TO FIND OUT IF HE IS NEW TO THE NEIHGBORHOOD.(WE LIVE A FEW BLOCKS AWAY)HE WELCOMED THEM TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD COME TO US FOR A SHABBOS MEAL.
YES,EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD HAS PEOPLE WHO ARE FRIENDLY AND SOME THAT KEEP TO THEMSELVES BUT KENSINGTON HAPPENS TO BE ON THE WHOLE A VERY FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE YESHIVISH,CHASIDISH,MODERN ORTHODOX ECT.. GET ALONG VERY WELL.ANOTHER THING,PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BLOCK AROUND ALL KNOW EACH OTHER NOT LIKE OTHER AREAS.
I SAT SHIVA IN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROOKLYN A FEW YEARS AGO WITH MY SISTER FROM AN OUT OF TOWN COMMUNITY. ALOT OF FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS OF DIFFERERENT AGES,FROM KENSINGTON, CAME TO BE MENACHEM AVEL,MY SISTER WAS SO AMAZED AT WHAT NICE PEOPLE THEY ARE. SHE (FROM OUT OF TOWN)SAID “I WISH I HAD SUCH NICE PEOPLE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD”
I have gone out of town for shabbosim and walking to shul you will have people wish you gut shabbos and some not.
It’s not only brooklyn , we all have to wake up and open our eyes.
I’m not saying to walk over to every person you meet but as i said open your eyes.
It’s easy for us to bash verious NYC neighborhoods for their lack of friendliness. Every person just needs to look out for newcomers and make them feel at home. I thought it was self-understood (but I guess not) that the first thing you say to a new arrival in your neighborhood should not be words of criticism, but rather words of welcome. Show an interest in the person, make him or her feel at home. You can always offer gentle words of criticism once you’ve established a relationship.
We CAN solve this problem, we just need to do it one family at a time.
Sad story, but considering how Kensington was caught off guard this summer, people may be extra cautious.
But I doubt the comment about the eruv was as relayed, becuase if the new arrival was wearing a kippa serugah, no one would say anything as the YI crowd uses the eruv.
So if it was said, that could have been the resident’s way of opening a dialouge, and the newcomer took it as a confrontaion.
“FIRST OF ALL KENSINGTON IS A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD!SECOND OF ALL THE BLOCK THEY MOVED ONTO ONLY HALF THE BLOCK IS JEWISH AND ALOT ARE AWAY NOW.THIRD,THIS PAST SHABBOS MY HUSBAND NOTICED A NEW FACE IN SHUL(THE HUSBAND) AND WENT OVER TO HIM TO FIND OUT IF HE IS NEW TO THE NEIHGBORHOOD.(WE LIVE A FEW BLOCKS AWAY)HE WELCOMED THEM TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD COME TO US FOR A SHABBOS MEAL.
YES,EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD HAS PEOPLE WHO ARE FRIENDLY AND SOME THAT KEEP TO THEMSELVES BUT KENSINGTON HAPPENS TO BE ON THE WHOLE A VERY FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE YESHIVISH,CHASIDISH,MODERN ORTHODOX ECT.. GET ALONG VERY WELL.ANOTHER THING,PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BLOCK AROUND ALL KNOW EACH OTHER NOT LIKE OTHER AREAS.
I SAT SHIVA IN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROOKLYN A FEW YEARS AGO WITH MY SISTER FROM AN OUT OF TOWN COMMUNITY. ALOT OF FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS OF DIFFERERENT AGES,FROM KENSINGTON, CAME TO BE MENACHEM AVEL,MY SISTER WAS SO AMAZED AT WHAT NICE PEOPLE THEY ARE. SHE (FROM OUT OF TOWN)SAID “I WISH I HAD SUCH NICE PEOPLE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD””
hit caps lock once more…and this has to be the shortest short story ever…how is this a short story?!
its a story isnt it?
and as stories go its pretty short.
ergo it is a story which is short.
in other words a short story.
no it is not a “short story” according to the limited literary criteria of that particular genre of literature.
but this story does not pretend to be “literature”.
the title is misleading
probably only to you and haifagirl
when i saw the title i didnt suppose id see a 25 page story by o henry or saki
It seems like today is a day to argue semantics.
“today is a day”
obviously
80 lol
I don’t think it’s only Brooklyn per se (although out of town would probably be more open) but I don’t live in Brooklyn and the community I live in is very nice, warm and all. But we are giving a BT a hebrew name and her mother and grandfather want to come. We were discussing which shul to do it at, and immediately ruled out the one we daven at because it is a FFB crowd and they wouldn’t feel comfortable because no one would say hi or go up to them and make them feel welcome.
It’s a mentality. It probably started when they were young, as a protection – don’t hang around people not like you because they might be bad influences. It’s not right, and something should be done about it ASAP because it’s a tremendous chilull Hashem (which for the record is a greater aveira amongst Jews than non-Jews…)
i live in flatbush and i feel that recently allot of ppl have been saying gut shabbos i felt like ppl are acting super friendly cuz its not so normal for ppl in flatbush
i was once in florida and even the non jewish neighbors would say hi and i dont even live there
title is misleading. people are judgemental. people stare. not gonna change. get over it
On a positive note: I’m an “out of towner” living in Flatbush. We recently had our 4th child. The 1st 2 kids were born in NY. We got no meals or offers for help after they were born. We lived in another state when we had the 3rd. We were spoiled with all the help. We moved back to NY a year ago, and when we had this baby, I didn’t expect any help. People from shul that my husband knows made us meals. Mind you, I’ve never met any of the wives. We even got a meal from someone in the shul that my husband met once. We didn’t even know their names! I was pleasantly surprised by this treatment, since we didn’t gave the same experience in the past. Also, in regards to people say “good Shabbos”, I find that more people say it, or at least answer me when I say it first. Less people stare at me trying to figure out if they know me.
Grew up in NY and have lived in London since I’ve B’H married. I greet every single person on Shabbos or Yom Tov, so much so that I even wish them a gut, gebenched Chodesh when it is Shabbos Mevarchim. Most people answer in the affirmative, some just nod, some don’t speak.
In our shul, every newcomer is greeted and asked if they are a guest or have they moved into the area. They are also invited for meals, even on the spur of the moment.
There is a wonderful Rebbetzin who lives on our street which consists of 6 short blocks. Every year she puts an invite written in poetic style, through the letterbox to invite all the yiddishe neighbors from all six blocks, to “meet & greet the neighbors” on a Shabbos afternoon for a welcoming tea/coffee. She puts on a big spread of the most beautiful, delicios, homemade cakes, cookies, fruit platters, bridge rolls etc., when all the ladies come. She gives a short dvar Torah and everyone feels welcomed. Everyone looks forward to this each year.
This is a true story that happened in our wonderful shul. A man came from Israel to London for business and stayed locally in a small hotel. He had yahrzeit for one of his late parents’ and he came to say kaddish for mincha and maariv, in one of the 6 shuls (bli ayin harah!), in the 6 block street. After davening, the Rav shlita asked everyone to stay behind for 10 minutes to say Tehillim for our brethen in Israel, who were under attack during the Intefada. All the men and boys stayed behind and said Tehillim bekol rom fervently. The man also stayed and said Tehillim. The man returned to Israel and was most impressed. He was not religious, but he had taken upon himself to say kaddish for his belated parents. He was in a shop in Bnei Brak and made photo copies. He heard an english accent from the owner and asked him, “where do you come from?” and the owner answered, “Golders Green”. This man told him I was just in Golders Green and went to a local shul to say kaddish. I was most impressed that the whole shul stayed behind at the request of the Rav, to say Tehillim for the situation in Israel. The shul was packed and no one left and they davened with such kavana. I took it upon myself when I returned to Israel, that from then onwards I would put on Tefillin everyday and daven. If the people in chutz le eretz can do so much for the people of Eretz Yisrael, in our time of need, I am can start to daven with tefillin every day. The owner asked him which shul it was and he told him. The owner of the shop smiled broadly. The man asked if he knew the shul and and the wonderful Rav. The owner said to him, “Yes, I know the shul very well and have davened there often. The Rav is my brother in law!”
The Rav was told about this man by his brother in law, and how saying Tehillim had changed a man’s life for the better, without anyone knowing about it, or doing anything for him. Kal ve chomer, how much more so, if we make the effort to help or greet someone in our midst.
Yes, it is Chodesh Elul and we all must strive to make an effort to become better in our ways each and every day, in all our dealings in our personal and business lives. It does not cost you anything to smile and greet someone warmly and to be kind to all people. We are the chosen people and we should be making a Kiddush Ha-Shem every second of our lives. And, yes it is menchlach to notice when someone is new in shul, or a guest, no matter what his religious affiliation is. We can invite them for a meal and to bring something in to a new neighbor. Another idea is to make a list with addresses and phone #s of all the heimishe shops and other local supermarkets and info i.e. hatzalah, shomrim, for them to have.
May we all be zocher to have a kesiva ve chasima tova and may H’KBH bless us that all our tefillot be answered le tova be karov Amen!
I dont know where in Kensington this meeting took place. I may be wrong, but not all areas of Kensington are coverned by ANY Eruv. The eruv from BP doesnt go all the way to Ocean Parkway and the flatbush eruc doesnt extend all the way down either. It IS possible that the person was actually in an area where there is no eruv, according to any opinion. Whether that should be the very first thing you say to someone you happen to meet, is another story.
Regarding Kensington, I dont live in the neighborhood, but the friends and relatives that I do know in the neighborhood are all very friendly people, in fact, some of the relationships were started by a conversation waiting for the pediatrician, waiting on line in a store, so yes, people from Kensington DO engage people they dont know in friendly conversation.
“”today is a day”
obviously”
HEY! the reflexive property is important! or so my 10th grade math teacher claimed…
yes but this is not a reflexive statement since today and day do not have equivalent meanings (eg tomorrow is also a day, and since tomorrow and today are not equivalent, neither one is wholly equivalent to day).
the obviousity is that “today” is clearly a subset of “day”.
and although the statement “today is a day” is not inherently a tautology, nevertheless the relationship between the two terms is so well established as to make its specification redundant.
I was in London (Golders Green) 12 years ago and I can vouch for the people inviting strangers over
Ive never seen anything like that in any other community
well thats irrelevant because i really like apple cherry pie!
I live in Midwood & I must say that we certainly are friendly and welcoming. I know and speak to most of the people on my block on a regular basis. We do food shopping for each other, among other things. However, there are apartment houses on the block and I really don’t know everyone who lives there, there are over 70 families in that house alone!
On a side note, I was in Venice and the chabad people there are really great.
Because there isnt much of a jewish community in Venice anymore BUT there is a large tourist transiant community there, they have a very active Chabad there
Not only do they make meals on Shabbos for ALOT of people (I was not there on Shabbos) they act as unoffical tour guides for the Historic Venice Ghetto, Not only are they asking people to put on Teffillin, they give tourist tips as well
After spend several years visiting jewish communities around the US and living in various others in my college years (Passaic-Clifton, Monsey, Teaneck, Kew Garden Hills) I know there are a lot of people that are indifferent to outsiders in the ENTIRE NY Metro Area.
Yes. I said it. NOT just Brooklyn. All over Downstate NY and Northern NJ.
If you want to listen to Country Music while waving to newcomers on your big green tractor (with a Gemara in your hand of course), them move to Central NY or Iowa.
Don’t move the a big city like Brooklyn (yes, it was once an independent city larger than NYC) and then complain about the Big City residents don’t have your country living attitude.
Sincerely,
Out-of-Town is underwhelming and overrated
I’m in Flatbush for the weekend, and over Shabbos I tried out the good Shabbos thing, and everyone I said Good Shabbos to replied Good Shabbos back.
Maybe Flatbush really is changing
Why do you think there has been a change? It always was like this.
My Rav (Rav Moshe Tendler) told us that according to the She’iltos, commandments applying between bnei yisrael and a ger also apply to new neighbors (mandepalig presumes that this is since they can also be considered gerim in this context).
Tomche,
Idk where u live but it hasn’t happened to me until yesterday
I used to live in Kensington and found it to be one of the warmest communities! They have a women’s Parsha shiur which is running over 40 years. All newcomers who attend are introduced
and welcomed.
Something is missing from this story…
What is most disturbing about the story though is not the purported facts, but rather, how people are so quick to say negative things about whole communities.
I will never forget what happened about a decade ago. I (and another unrelated person) were on a flight from Tel Aviv to Toronto. It was not a direct flight, there was a stopover in London. Due to an unusual winter storm in London, all flights were cancelled that night. This happened on a Thursday Night in late March of that year. We had no choice but to get flights out of London on Sunday mid-day. Suffice it to say, this gentleman and I did not have provisions for Shabbos. We headed to Golders Green and booked a hotel room for Friday Night until Sunday Morning. We managed to get a few items from a local grocer for Shabbos; cold cuts, tuna, some grape juice, etc… Both of us arrived to (I believe) Munk’s Shul for Mincha and Kabbolos Shabbos. We sat down (somewhat separately) and a few people came over to each of us inquiring about where we were from. Explaining to them that we were stuck here from a winter-cancelled flight, each of us received invitations (immediately) to have dinner and Shabbos Lunch by two separate families. I will always remember the true Chessed that we both experienced by these families and by the Golders Green community.
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