Does an invalid "get" cause mamzeirus?

Home Forums Bais Medrash Does an invalid "get" cause mamzeirus?

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  • #610863
    ultimaterock
    Member

    If people used the arrested thugs (or similar types) to beat someone into giving a “get”, if the wife remarries afterwards are future children mamzeirim? If so there may be many mamzeirim out there.

    #994100
    Sam2
    Participant

    In theory, it depends. In reality, it is quite difficult to prove that a Get was Meuseh (and that he still did not give it B’lev Shalem; M’useh by itself is only a P’sul D’rabannan so we would throw every Kula in the book and more at the case to make sure the kids aren’t Mamzerim) and the burden of proof is entirely on the former husband. Therefore, while in theory it could create Mamzerim, such a case occurring L’ma’aseh would be incredibly rare.

    #994101
    midwesterner
    Participant

    Yes, an invalid get causes mazeirus. There are halachically legal processes by which one can force a get, (get me’useh b’Yisroel) in which case it would be a kosher get, and the subsequent children will not be mamzeirim.

    There is, however, a cheirim from Rabbeinu Tam, on one who is motzi laaz on a get finalized by a bais din. Given the number of people that have violated that cheirim in the last couple of days right here in the coffeeroom, it may be ossur at this point to visit, for those not in that cheirim may no longer be permitted to associate with quite a large number of posters.

    #994102
    jwashing
    Member

    i would first read the halachic view of the events that just occurred i read that before he died reb eleyashiv claimed that the gittin forced by some of the people involved in the indecent were not kosher

    #994104
    akuperma
    Participant

    If the woman involved in an invalid “get” has children by another man, the child is a putative mamzer. The reason for saying “putative” is that in practice most batei dinim tend to “bend over backwards” to avoid deciding that someone is a mamzer, so unless a “get” is clearly invalid by at opinons, the likelihood was/is/will be that the child will eventually be held to be a non-mamzer (either by validating the “get” or otherwise, such as by finding the marriage to have been invalid). In this area the “theory” as to what halacha is tends to vary from what most rabbanim end up deciding in actual cases involving the children of the woman with a dubious “get.”

    If you don’t believe, do an empirical study of shaiolohs and tseuvahs.

    #994105
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    It appears the day is coming when we will consider all chovevei-niks to be safek mamzerim.

    #994106
    the-art-of-moi
    Participant

    This is so sad!So many neshamos were harmed by those…. I’ll leave it at that.

    #994107
    Fiddler
    Member

    the-art-of-moi: You think those kids are …?

    #994109
    Redleg
    Participant

    This issue illustrates the difference between theoretical halacha and real psak and the reason that, in serious issues, one should not rely on looking it up in Mishna Berurah or asking a such shailah to your average Rosh haYeshiva. If you have a serious question that involves life and death (real of figurative) as your Kehilah Rav, someone who deals with real people in the real world.

    #994110
    the-art-of-moi
    Participant

    Fiddler

    I’m not a rabbi(not even close) but my educated asumption is that if a guy was forced into giving a get, his wife is still married to him. And if those women married, their kids are mamzerim.

    BTW- I don’t get the whole Joseph thing. Anyone care to explain?

    #994111
    Yenta
    Participant
    #994112
    apushatayid
    Participant

    does an invalid shechita cause treifos? the answer to your question is obvious. what is not as obvious is the halachic application of kofin oso. Im not a rav or a thug, im not qualified to answer from either perspective.

    #994113
    Participant

    does an invalid shechita cause treifos?

    Normally it would cause neveilos.

    #994114
    apushatayid
    Participant

    I meant to write tarfus, I guess linguistics is not one of my strengths either.

    #994115

    The ??? ????? writes that according to ??? ???????? THE ???? of ?? ????? is ????????

    #994116

    the question is wrongly asked.

    An invalid get will always cayse mamzeirus, the question is what is needed to amke a get valid and avoid mamzeirus.

    #994117
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Well really having kids with someone else afterwards is the part that causes mamzeirus.

    #994118
    YW Moderator-127
    Moderator

    Closing the topic pending moderator review.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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