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@torahvaluesoverparty I’m not saying that the vaccines are perfectly safe. I’m saying that taking a vaccine (any vaccine) is a thousand times better than not taking one, considering that an individual is far more likely to contract COVID and be hospitalized that experience any major adverse effects from the vaccine.
This is a dangerous opinion because it pushes the fiction that there are a significant amount of doctors who don’t want people to vaccinate. You can’t say “There are two sides, immunize or not immunize” when one side has the majority of the medical establishment, and the other side is a guy who graduated last in his class in 1975 and has been running an accupuncture clinic ever since. It’s like lehavdil the equivalent of saying that you can eat pork because your friend from high school told you that chazer doesn’t mean pig.
Yserbius, “I’m saying that taking a vaccine (any vaccine) is a thousand times better than not taking one, considering that an individual is far more likely to contract COVID and be hospitalized that experience any major adverse effects from the vaccine.”-this is logically flawed, for if someone has a near-zero precent chance of dying, there may be a good chance that a potential risk from the vaccine is higher. You know how many under the age of 40 died from covid in the US? 6,500. Out of 11,500,000 confirmed cases. For every confirmed case-we can both make our own estimates-there is probably at least a few unconfirmed (asymptomatic) cases. Let’s for arguments sake say there were 30,000,000 cases altogether. That’s a .02% chance of a under 40 american dying. Oh wait, according to the cdc, only 6% of covid-19 deaths had no comorbities. 390 deaths. .000013% chance for a healthy young american to die from covid………you get my point.. The risk is near zero. We don’t know with absolute certainty that the risk of long term negative effects isn’t higher than the .000013%. And I never suggested that the medical establishment is split on the matter. I never even suggested that any doctor would say not to get it altogether. I said that I’ve heard of a couple doctors who are a bit hesitant, and want to wait a little more.
I was hoping that you would respond to my explanation on HCQ.@torahvaluesoverparty The death statistics are flawed and continue to be flawed because they only focus on the individual, not the danger that said individual presents to others. Meaning, if a 30 year old perfectly healthy man lives in a box, it’s unlikely he will contract a serious illness from COVID. The issue is that we are communities, and for every person that doesn’t take the vaccine that’s another person spreading a dangerous virus. And this virus can spread. Like really really fast, much faster than most viruses we are familiar with.
Furthermore, even by your own reasoning everyone over 40 or with any sort of chronic health issue absolutely should get vaccinated, which is in direct contradiction to your previous blanket statements telling people not to.
Finally, almost all of your reasoning rests with the idea that the vaccines are “untested”. Not only is that blatantly false (at this point far more people have had the vaccine shots and for far longer time than FDA approved testing groups) but it was never true to begin with! The FDA fast tracked the human testing, meaning that they allowed vaccine manufacturers to test on humans before they were convinced that it was safe. And guess what? The four approved vaccines passed the human trials.
Now let’s get back to HCQ. I am not a doctor. You are not a doctor. You aren’t even a scientist with regular experience reading and deciphering scientific discussions, papers, studies, medicinal fact sheets, and research. So neither I nor you can say what HCQ does or does not do. But my doctor said it doesn’t work. And out of all the many many doctors, nurses, PA’s, epidemiologists, and other healthcare workers I know, not one thinks another HCQ study will yield significantly positive results. (A doctor I know did recommend vitamin D and ivermectin, but specified that it’s far from a sure thing) And I’m willing to bet that, unless you lived in Kiryas Yoel a year ago, you don’t have a personal physician who recommends it either.
But we can put all of that to the side. Even assuming that your numbers are 100% correct, people are simply not getting treated with HCQ. You have also made it clear on multiple occasions that HCQ should not be taken instead of the vaccine. So that settles the matter. You agree with me that people should be vaccinated and are arguing with @TristateJew who says that more people should just die.
I’m not saying it wasn’t tested, obviously it was. I’m saying we don’t have all that much data on possible long term effects-as tristate pointed out-straight from the vaccine label.
I am indeed no expert, and if my opinion was my own, I’d put what I perceive as common sense on hold-and trust the experts. But thats just not the case, my opinion is actually that of many health experts. I would absolutely love to hear your doctor’s justification, I do know doctors all over the country were threatened by the medical establishment with as much as license revocation-if they dared to use HCQ. I am simply seeking an explanation from the anti-HCQ experts, any expert. I’ve tried to discuss this with one expert on YWNCR, but whenever it got down to details, I’d be left hanging.@torahvaluesoverparty Looks like we are in agreement then. Listen to the experts. And those experts say that it’s better to get vaccinated and face the very slim odds of problems than rely on untested therapies in case an individual C”V does catch COVID.
Also, the test groups have had the vaccine for close to a year and so far no more issues than the control groups. So I’m not . 100% what “long term” effects means, but I’m pretty sure that if the FDA sees nothing in a year they are OK with saying that it’s fine.
I simply don’t understand why you’re angry at me for calling out @TristateJew’s dangerous inaccuracies and fallacies and not at those who are promoting dangerous inaccuracies and fallacies. Especially since, by your own admission, @TristateJew is wrong.
Perhaps we agree on the end result-that everyone should get vaccinated-but I don’t agree that the reason is necessarily that we are “trusting the experts”, and not trying an “untested therapies”. A) I just think practically it is difficult to access HCQ and B) daas torah told us to get vaccinated, so we get vaccinated.
I’m not “angry” at you for calling out tristate, I just think you can’t deny right off the bat that what he’s saying is legitimate, and there is what to discuss. He’s not a “dangerous fool” for voicing his at least somewhat valid concern.I see my reply was posted, but won’t update the thread listings on the main CR page🤔🤔
Mods don’t moderate over Yom Tov. shrugs
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