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Just want to know what you think
it depends if you’re chareidi or modern orhodox
Pritzus.
Meno – I hope that was a joke. Halacha doesn’t change just because you decide to call yourself MO.
I agree with Joseph for the most part. Except that I am under the impression that there are very Frum people who go to the beach during certain seasons or times of day when there is no pritzus. So there may be times when it’s okay. I do remember going once for Tashlich and it was fine.
I don’t know whether in Israel there are certain places they have security to keep out one gender, but in the U.S. there are no such public beaches. To assume that during certain times when it is not busy it might be okay to go is highly problematic because there is nothing to prevent anyone else from suddenly appearing at the beach. That unexpected visitor could be a woman dressed pritzusdik, thus causing aveiras to any men there at the time, or a man who will see any frum women there who weren’t expecting that visitor.
I was talking about the US. The women dress tzniusly so it wouldn’t be a problem if men showed up. I had thought Frum men also go to the beach during off-seasons or at night, but maybe I was wrong about that. The only time I remember going was for Tashlich on Erev Yom Kippur. I went with a family including the husband, and I think there were only Frum people there.
Probably, goyim wouldn’t go to the beach when there is no lifeguard, so maybe that’s how Frum people are able to go.
Tashlich is different. In all the places I know the people only go to tashlich in a place where there is no swimming. There are many such available places in NYC, being NYC is situated on three different islands.
Even if dressed tzniusly, there would be a problem with being in public in wet clothing. Also, isn’t there a safety concern when there’s no lifeguard?
I think it’s fine, but you also have to bring the mothers. And you should bring hay, because there’s no grass for them to eat there.
Joseph, I guess I was talking about places where there’s no swimming. And I was talking about people who aren’t going to swim, because I was assuming it was obvious that that is untznius!
But if the subject of the OP was swimming in a place where others are swimming, then obviously it’s assur!
Depends how old, depend who is on the beach.
RebYid, goats will eat almost anything. Beach goers usually bring snacks.
Seriously, I know a totally blind boy who would love to go to a water park. There’s no problem of him seeing women who aren’t tznius, but who can go with him?
His mother?
It’s also a problem for women to be somewhere where there is pritzus. I have heard in the names of both Rav Pincus and Rav Matisyahu Salomon, yibadel l’chaim that it is more of a problem for women to see inappropriate things than men. The woman is in charge of the Kedusha of the home, so whatever she sees affects the home.
Two frum men unfortunately died in Florida this year when they went swimming where there was no lifeguard on duty and got caught by a rip tide. This is no joking matter.
Also, I remember reading here that Boston has separate beach times. Is this no longer the case?
A male who goes to a beach where there are women dressed immodestly is oiver on many issurim.
If you go to a place where you are certain not to see anything improper, then there is no reason why not.
I don’t think there is any mekoir in Halachah for an issur histaklus for a woman. How can any woman go swimming if they will see others dressed in a manner that a man may not see? Does anyone have a source for this?
Yekke2 – it is different if someone is dressed untzniusly for a toeles (like swimming). I was referring to pritzus. Women are also not allowed to see pritzus.
Mammale – I didn’t mean that people should go swimming where there is no lifeguard. That is very dangerous! I was assuming that we were talking about going to the beach w/o swimming, but that may have been an incorrect assumption.
Most important thing: be sure to take your kids with you when you leave.
“Atmosphere” does not only mean how the people are dressed, although it often correlates with how they are acting. Would you take your kids to a nightclub?
apushatayid – that’s why I wonder if it’s appropriate to take a blind boy to a water park
it’s assur, unless you can find a time and place where you’re absolutely sure no one else will be around. this is unlikely though, so just do something else.
There are private beaches, It doesnt exist in NY area. but it does exist elsewhere. If someone would frolic on the beach, they would be breaking the law and tresspassing
If the temperature is in the 30 or 40 Fahrenheit I think it will be okay unless the polar bears are out.
huju + Abba_S: What if polar bears take your kids home; would that be okay?
Absolutely not. All pritzus.
Abba_S: I don’t think shmiras haayin applies to polar bears.
Mammele-Also, I remember reading here that Boston has separate beach times. Is this no longer the case?
There aren’t any public beaches with seperate swimming times and I dont think that that was ever the case. (I used to live there for 14 years and just recently moved)
I don’t understand the question. Do you mean to say, is it okay to go to the beach? As opposed to davka, is it okay to bring your kids to the beach? I’m not sure why it would be okay for a frum adult of either gender to go to the beach, but somehow not okay for them to bring their children there.
LU Polar Bears is a swimming club of humans who go swimming in the winter in NYC.
Abba_S: Thanks for the explanation. I thought it was a joke.
Thanks for the laughs, RebYidd!
It's also a problem for women to be somewhere where there is pritzus. I have heard in the names of both Rav Pincus and Rav Matisyahu Salomon, yibadel l'chaim that it is more of a problem for women to see inappropriate things than men.I don’t think that applies to women simply seeing
other women in swimwear. (The post was in response
to the suggestion that a mother go to a water park;
with regard to beaches, there might be the possibility
of such an issue.)
Seriously, I know a totally blind boy who would love to go to a water park. There's no problem of him seeing women who aren't tznius, but who can go with him?A. What makes him better than sighted boys who would enjoy a water park?
(That is, why worry about him being able to go more than we do anyone else?)
B. A sister (or, as Meno would have it, mother) comes immediately to mind.
C. What about mar’is ayin?
“Atmosphere” does not only mean how the people are dressed, although it often correlates with how they are acting. Would you take your kids to a nightclub?
apushatayid – that’s why I wonder if it’s appropriate to take a blind boy to a water park
Just what do you think goes on at water parks,
which, unlike nightclubs, are a family venue?
“in the U.S. there are no such public beaches”
There are, however, remote isolated beaches where you won’t see anyone else except for perhaps a park ranger driving by on a beach vehicle.
There are additional issues that are even more important than the pritzus. Self-induced skin cancer, for one. Deadly riptides, for another — I almost drowned once about 20 years ago in a riptide off a deserted California beach — I was about 1/2 mile out to sea before I was able to swim about a mile parallel to shore and get out of the riptide. And because it was one of those remote isolated beaches there were no lifeguards. Fortunately I am a strong (although not fast) swimmer; all Jews need to learn to swim!
Re: Charliehall’s post: Definitely DO NOT go swimming where there are no lifeguards!!! VERY DANGEROUS!!!
To the best of my knowledge, there used to be a single-gender beach in Boston. It was called the “nuns’ beach” or the “priests’ beach.” This was sometime in the mid to late 20th century.
Somebody needs to go on the rides with the blind boy. Participants are required to wear swimsuits, so his mother couldn’t accompany him.
Abba_S: Seriously thank you.
LU: I had no clue that they were talking about humans!
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