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friends know i am studying for the cpa and started asking me accounting questions and some asked me to do their taxes. i dont mind answering their questions, but it is my profession and parnassah, should i ask them for compensation or just do it. my boss always tells me we are selling our time and time is precious. my sister told me to tell them if they find me three paying clients i will do theirs for free…so what to do what to do?
Your boss and sister make sense. Unless its a really really close friend
Tell them, “Please understand that if i do your taxes, it might mean giving up a paid client, so I’d be glad to do it, but I must charge you. But I’ll give you a discount”. Then do so.
Charge them. You’re taking time to work for them. Maybe charge a cheaper fee, but don’t become the lady everyone takes advantage of!
Take it from a wife whose hub did a lot of work for other, for free, until she got fed up….;) No more!
idk this is business and chances are you need the money! my really good friend does haircuts and i pay her for it! make them pay!
cshapiro – Why is it that you are debating about to charge them? Is it because they are your friends, or is it because its a small favor?
What does one do if all clients are friends?!?
I agree with Daas Yochid and Gum Ball( your subtitle is impressive) If they are a good friend they should look to give you business- not take free services. If they don’t even offer compensation, they are advantage takers. Unless it is a quick question that is not too involved. Chessed does not mean letting yourself be taken advantage of.
i must agree with what is being said above.
friends are friends and good for a cup of coffee (and some!!) but business is business and if they are real friends they will undrestand and not expect a free dinner.
maybe you could make yourself a few basic rules. you will answer friends their questions or even help them with work so long as it is less than 5 mins a week, beyond that they must pay, although as has already been mentioned, you can give them a discount.
Do you charge friends?
$8.35/ hour to be friends with me. I like to think I’m a bit over priced, but that you get what your money’d worth. Which in todays economy when friends can get very expensive, is a very important thing.
I also have month passes. Be friends with me an entire month for only $7.99 an hour!
The world stands on 3 things. One of those 3 is Chesed! However, what is Chesed? Is Chesed something which costs you? Than that is not Chesed! It costed you to go to College, learn a trade, & a skill, should you then give up on what you spent for free? Absolutely Not!
Now, let’s compare this to Shadchanus! Why do Shadchan’s charge an exorbinant amount? is it because they know that they can and get away with it? What is it costing them besides time & phone calls? NOTHING! Yet do they do it on Chesed alone? NO! They charge through the nose! As wrong as that is, the same rule applies to accounting! You earned your degree, and now it’s time for you to reap the benefits.
What’s next? Free lawyers or doctors? (Under Obama, anyhthing can happen!)
Chesed does not apply here. You are entitled to make a Parnassah. Charge them!
Once money is involved it changes the dynamic of the friendship.
If it is someone who you could careless about their friendship, by all means, charge them. Otherwise, do it as a favor.
As a personal policy, I don’t charge family or friends for my services (photographic, tutor, bar mitzvah teacher, laining, computer repair, software education, etc.). If there is to be a huge outlay, then perhaps I’ll ask them to cover that, but otherwise no.
That being said, there is absolutely nothing unethical about charging friends and family a fair price for your work. You are entitled to your “free time” and if working for others is going to cut into that, you are entitled to compensation for that time — so don’t feel guilty about charging them.
The Wolf
I am a CPA and I would never charge my friends for asking tax questions. I would never do their tax returns since my area of expertise is large corporations, not individual income tax. If you are NOT A CPA yet, I don’t know why in the world your friends would trust you with their tax returns….
While there may well be exceptions for CLOSE family and VERY close friends, remember this…
Consciously or subconsciously, people will always think you are worth what you charge.
Make flyers advertising your services. Then ask them to help you find clients.
“If you are NOT A CPA yet, I don’t know why in the world your friends would trust you with their tax returns….”
Non-CPAs do it all the time, its called Turbo Tax.
A good friend would NOT ask you to do it for free or want to “use” you, but would come to you because they trust you to do it right and not to overcharge them. So there is nothing wrong with saying, “I have no problem doing your taxes for the friends and family rate, not what my boss would charge you”. They can either take that as a polite no or understand that you have to charge them.
Part of learning a trade is learning the business end of the trade. If you are in the business of doing favors you won’t be in the business of making money.
Is it ok to charge friends who come over to ask you questions in learning? After all, if I would be an accountant I would charge them.
Friends? Start charging and you’ll find out how many friends you actually have, maybe three if you’re lucky.
Cherrybim- All the better- at least you know the score.
Aries- you are right on the mark, except, I may add that you are not in the business of “making money” off a friend, but rather making a living. There’s a big difference.
Helping other students succeed in your own field is basic mentchlichkeit, if you have the time.
My .02, actually the difference would be if your friend said “lets trade I’ll do…….and you do my taxes. How does that work for you?” After all when does an accountant even have a chance to breathe during tax season. So if they are NOT offering anything in exchange like friends do, then you don’t owe anyone favors. Do they not pay for other services? Can they NOT afford it? If they needed her to do it because they can’t do it themselves and they can’t afford an accountant I don’t think she would be asking this question. But a friend would still offer a massage, a dinner, or something that they are trained to do, car wash, hem a dress…..
Ben Zuta (brought down in (Ibn) Even Ezra, Mishpatim) says he does, one ox charging (at) his friend. According to Even Ezra, the ox has only one friend…
For something like a tax return I would consider charging (albeit at a steep discount) but for an accounting question, I would never. But hey, that’s just me…
Hey, ZeesKite, he must be related to the Ben Parrim of Parshas Vayeitzey.
BTW,
There is an ancient invention waiting to be re-discovered; it is called, common sense. It is used to judge different situations separately. In other words, you should not be taken advantage of but you can do a friend a favor.
As long as it remains in the realm of a favor, would you turn him down on the basis of a policy? What to call a favor can depend on who it is for.
If u don’t charge ur friends all of a sudden ur gonna have a lot of friends and from experience if u wanna give a discount u have say for now cuz ur starting out otherwise ur never gonna be able to make $ and tell them not to tell people how much u charge but ur giving them the discount so hopefully they will spread the word for u
cshapiro- If you dont mind doing it, or enjoy it, then its still a favor. However if you mind it, or are not interested, then I would consider it labor.
If someone is asking you to do their taxes this late in the game, where you are on countdown it is labor. Favors you do in January!
[I’m only a visitor here, but I learned the hard way…]
As long as you’re asking that means you can still manage to do a certain amount for free…
This question doesn’t have one flat answere, it’s the kind of thing you will form an answer to as you form your Parnassa. But you definately will have to have some uncomfortable conversations, which eventually will not be so uncomfortable…
I am also a CPA, but I am an auditor, so doing tax returns is not really my parnassa. I don’t charge anyone, but I put everyone on extension and do them in June.
Good.jew:
Do you put them on extension, or do you tell them to do it? Because I don’t know how to do an extension.
Mr general rule used to be, if it’s a simple return and going to tale 15 minutes, I would have them come over with thier stuff and have them sit with me while I do it. As I advanced at work I had less time and they dropped off slowly as the only time available was motzei shabbos. Some I told i just don’t have the time anymore. It’s either you or my kids that’s getting the 15 minutes and I choose my kids. just remember, if they are paying you, you need to be registered with the IRS and pay the annual registration fee.
No I would never charge a close friend for anything professional, and never have. I have written poems, songs, and lyrics for parodies, and spent much time and effort on this; but it is my pleasure to help a friend. At one point in my life I was an editor and now I edit papers for family and friends. If a “fremdeh” would ask for the same services, I would charge. I worked side by side with my friend to help her set up when she opened a store, and wanted no pay. You don’t take money from the people who are closest to you, IMO.
OTOH, if what they need will cause a great tirchah or financial loss to you, you might want to re-evaluate.
PBA, whoever makes a formal extension request in writing that is notarized, gets an extension
good.jew formal extension request in writing that is notarized, ????????
You a CPA got this info from where?
Here is the link for the Federal form
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
Here is the link for FAQ for NYS http://tax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/539 I think they no longer allow
paper applications.
I am not a a CPA, ENROLLED AGENT or self-accredited tax preparer
just some one a little self sufficient.
good.jew,
What in the world are you talking about? For the federal gov’t you file form 4868 and for New York state you file an IT-370 (I think) or online thorught the NYS website. There is no requirement of a notary.
“Application shall be in writing, and shall be notarized by a notary at law.”
http://intelliconnect.cch.com/scion/secure/index.jsp#page%5B7%5D
pba that link requires a login to an established account
I googled your ???? ???? & got http://books.google.com/books?id=7eluL18imQEC&pg=SA8-PA6&dq=26+USC+%C2%A71226(a)(3)(i)(I)&hl=en&ei=BfmcTdXwIaKD0QGxyMDnAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=26%20USC%20%C2%A71226(a)(3)(i)(I)&f=false
which is about S corporations.
My link was to CCH (now called intelliconnect) which is the resource used by all tax professionals to research laws, regulations, and cases.
Google is not always up to date. Congress changes these statutes about as often as you change your socks.
needs a login.
Granted “Google is not always up to date” but how do you reconcile your citation with the two Gov links I gave. Intelliconnect knows the law the than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show. May I say “typical PBA” always right?
Sounds like PBA is a tax professional and he agrees with me
good.jew
Maybe I too sound like a tax professional because I know my way around IRS & NYSTAX sites?
40 years ago I and 10 other barely literate ??????? ????????? used CCH on a daily basis. So what!!!
how do you reconcile PBA’s citation with the two Gov links I
gave. Intelliconnect knows the law better than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show.
I always go with PBA, except when he is wrong
Yontel
Member
good.jew formal extension request in writing that is notarized, ????????
You a CPA got this info from where?
Here is the link for the Federal form
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
Here is the link for FAQ for NYS http://tax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/539 I think they no longer allow
paper applications.
I am not a a CPA, ENROLLED AGENT or self-accredited tax preparer
just some one a little self sufficient.
wellmeaning busybody
Who doesn’t like a Yenta?
good.jew
Maybe I too sound like a tax professional because I know my way around IRS & NYSTAX sites?
40 years ago I and 10 other barely literate ??????? ????????? used CCH on a daily basis. So what!!!
how do you reconcile PBA’s citation with the two Gov links I
gave. Intelliconnect knows the law better than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show.
Why are you posting under 2 usernames?
You sound like a good auditor. Sharp eye for detail.
?????? ??? ???
??? ??? ????? ?????
????? ????? ??’ ?????
to keep the Yenta out of the ???? ????
??? ???? ___ ??? ????
& forgot to switch
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