Do you charge friends?

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  • #596114
    cshapiro
    Member

    friends know i am studying for the cpa and started asking me accounting questions and some asked me to do their taxes. i dont mind answering their questions, but it is my profession and parnassah, should i ask them for compensation or just do it. my boss always tells me we are selling our time and time is precious. my sister told me to tell them if they find me three paying clients i will do theirs for free…so what to do what to do?

    #828301

    Your boss and sister make sense. Unless its a really really close friend

    #828302
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Tell them, “Please understand that if i do your taxes, it might mean giving up a paid client, so I’d be glad to do it, but I must charge you. But I’ll give you a discount”. Then do so.

    #828303
    smartcookie
    Member

    Charge them. You’re taking time to work for them. Maybe charge a cheaper fee, but don’t become the lady everyone takes advantage of!

    Take it from a wife whose hub did a lot of work for other, for free, until she got fed up….;) No more!

    #828304
    GumBall
    Member

    idk this is business and chances are you need the money! my really good friend does haircuts and i pay her for it! make them pay!

    #828305
    real-brisker
    Member

    cshapiro – Why is it that you are debating about to charge them? Is it because they are your friends, or is it because its a small favor?

    #828306
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    What does one do if all clients are friends?!?

    #828307
    cshapiro
    Member

    i hope one day to take over my boss’s practice or make it to partner, whichever comes first, working for one of the big four is also out there….:)))

    anyways i feel like its my friends so ill do them a favour, but i feel like knowing how much is in their bank accts is a little too personal dontchya think?

    #828308
    My .02
    Member

    I agree with Daas Yochid and Gum Ball( your subtitle is impressive) If they are a good friend they should look to give you business- not take free services. If they don’t even offer compensation, they are advantage takers. Unless it is a quick question that is not too involved. Chessed does not mean letting yourself be taken advantage of.

    #828309
    tzvideer
    Member

    i must agree with what is being said above.

    friends are friends and good for a cup of coffee (and some!!) but business is business and if they are real friends they will undrestand and not expect a free dinner.

    maybe you could make yourself a few basic rules. you will answer friends their questions or even help them with work so long as it is less than 5 mins a week, beyond that they must pay, although as has already been mentioned, you can give them a discount.

    #828310

    Do you charge friends?

    $8.35/ hour to be friends with me. I like to think I’m a bit over priced, but that you get what your money’d worth. Which in todays economy when friends can get very expensive, is a very important thing.

    I also have month passes. Be friends with me an entire month for only $7.99 an hour!

    #828311
    yissi
    Participant

    The world stands on 3 things. One of those 3 is Chesed! However, what is Chesed? Is Chesed something which costs you? Than that is not Chesed! It costed you to go to College, learn a trade, & a skill, should you then give up on what you spent for free? Absolutely Not!

    Now, let’s compare this to Shadchanus! Why do Shadchan’s charge an exorbinant amount? is it because they know that they can and get away with it? What is it costing them besides time & phone calls? NOTHING! Yet do they do it on Chesed alone? NO! They charge through the nose! As wrong as that is, the same rule applies to accounting! You earned your degree, and now it’s time for you to reap the benefits.

    What’s next? Free lawyers or doctors? (Under Obama, anyhthing can happen!)

    Chesed does not apply here. You are entitled to make a Parnassah. Charge them!

    #828312
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Once money is involved it changes the dynamic of the friendship.

    If it is someone who you could careless about their friendship, by all means, charge them. Otherwise, do it as a favor.

    #828313
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    As a personal policy, I don’t charge family or friends for my services (photographic, tutor, bar mitzvah teacher, laining, computer repair, software education, etc.). If there is to be a huge outlay, then perhaps I’ll ask them to cover that, but otherwise no.

    That being said, there is absolutely nothing unethical about charging friends and family a fair price for your work. You are entitled to your “free time” and if working for others is going to cut into that, you are entitled to compensation for that time — so don’t feel guilty about charging them.

    The Wolf

    #828314

    I am a CPA and I would never charge my friends for asking tax questions. I would never do their tax returns since my area of expertise is large corporations, not individual income tax. If you are NOT A CPA yet, I don’t know why in the world your friends would trust you with their tax returns….

    #828315
    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    While there may well be exceptions for CLOSE family and VERY close friends, remember this…

    Consciously or subconsciously, people will always think you are worth what you charge.

    #828316
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Make flyers advertising your services. Then ask them to help you find clients.

    #828317
    Sacrilege
    Member

    “If you are NOT A CPA yet, I don’t know why in the world your friends would trust you with their tax returns….”

    Non-CPAs do it all the time, its called Turbo Tax.

    #828318
    aries2756
    Participant

    A good friend would NOT ask you to do it for free or want to “use” you, but would come to you because they trust you to do it right and not to overcharge them. So there is nothing wrong with saying, “I have no problem doing your taxes for the friends and family rate, not what my boss would charge you”. They can either take that as a polite no or understand that you have to charge them.

    Part of learning a trade is learning the business end of the trade. If you are in the business of doing favors you won’t be in the business of making money.

    #828319
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Is it ok to charge friends who come over to ask you questions in learning? After all, if I would be an accountant I would charge them.

    #828320
    cherrybim
    Participant

    Friends? Start charging and you’ll find out how many friends you actually have, maybe three if you’re lucky.

    #828321
    My .02
    Member

    Cherrybim- All the better- at least you know the score.

    Aries- you are right on the mark, except, I may add that you are not in the business of “making money” off a friend, but rather making a living. There’s a big difference.

    #828322
    Health
    Participant

    Helping other students succeed in your own field is basic mentchlichkeit, if you have the time.

    #828323
    aries2756
    Participant

    My .02, actually the difference would be if your friend said “lets trade I’ll do…….and you do my taxes. How does that work for you?” After all when does an accountant even have a chance to breathe during tax season. So if they are NOT offering anything in exchange like friends do, then you don’t owe anyone favors. Do they not pay for other services? Can they NOT afford it? If they needed her to do it because they can’t do it themselves and they can’t afford an accountant I don’t think she would be asking this question. But a friend would still offer a massage, a dinner, or something that they are trained to do, car wash, hem a dress…..

    #828324
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Ben Zuta (brought down in (Ibn) Even Ezra, Mishpatim) says he does, one ox charging (at) his friend. According to Even Ezra, the ox has only one friend…

    #828325
    dunno
    Member

    For something like a tax return I would consider charging (albeit at a steep discount) but for an accounting question, I would never. But hey, that’s just me…

    #828326
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Hey, ZeesKite, he must be related to the Ben Parrim of Parshas Vayeitzey.

    BTW,

    There is an ancient invention waiting to be re-discovered; it is called, common sense. It is used to judge different situations separately. In other words, you should not be taken advantage of but you can do a friend a favor.

    As long as it remains in the realm of a favor, would you turn him down on the basis of a policy? What to call a favor can depend on who it is for.

    #828327
    golden mom
    Member

    If u don’t charge ur friends all of a sudden ur gonna have a lot of friends and from experience if u wanna give a discount u have say for now cuz ur starting out otherwise ur never gonna be able to make $ and tell them not to tell people how much u charge but ur giving them the discount so hopefully they will spread the word for u

    #828328
    cshapiro
    Member

    okay so where do u draw the line between favor and labor?!?

    #828329
    real-brisker
    Member

    cshapiro- If you dont mind doing it, or enjoy it, then its still a favor. However if you mind it, or are not interested, then I would consider it labor.

    #828330
    aries2756
    Participant

    If someone is asking you to do their taxes this late in the game, where you are on countdown it is labor. Favors you do in January!

    #828331
    MDshweks
    Participant

    [I’m only a visitor here, but I learned the hard way…]

    As long as you’re asking that means you can still manage to do a certain amount for free…

    This question doesn’t have one flat answere, it’s the kind of thing you will form an answer to as you form your Parnassa. But you definately will have to have some uncomfortable conversations, which eventually will not be so uncomfortable…

    #828332
    good.jew
    Member

    I am also a CPA, but I am an auditor, so doing tax returns is not really my parnassa. I don’t charge anyone, but I put everyone on extension and do them in June.

    #828333
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Good.jew:

    Do you put them on extension, or do you tell them to do it? Because I don’t know how to do an extension.

    #828334
    rescue37
    Participant

    Mr general rule used to be, if it’s a simple return and going to tale 15 minutes, I would have them come over with thier stuff and have them sit with me while I do it. As I advanced at work I had less time and they dropped off slowly as the only time available was motzei shabbos. Some I told i just don’t have the time anymore. It’s either you or my kids that’s getting the 15 minutes and I choose my kids. just remember, if they are paying you, you need to be registered with the IRS and pay the annual registration fee.

    #828335
    oomis
    Participant

    No I would never charge a close friend for anything professional, and never have. I have written poems, songs, and lyrics for parodies, and spent much time and effort on this; but it is my pleasure to help a friend. At one point in my life I was an editor and now I edit papers for family and friends. If a “fremdeh” would ask for the same services, I would charge. I worked side by side with my friend to help her set up when she opened a store, and wanted no pay. You don’t take money from the people who are closest to you, IMO.

    OTOH, if what they need will cause a great tirchah or financial loss to you, you might want to re-evaluate.

    #828336
    good.jew
    Member

    PBA, whoever makes a formal extension request in writing that is notarized, gets an extension

    #828337
    yenta.morph
    Member

    good.jew formal extension request in writing that is notarized, ????????

    You a CPA got this info from where?

    Here is the link for the Federal form

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf

    Here is the link for FAQ for NYS http://tax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/539 I think they no longer allow

    paper applications.

    I am not a a CPA, ENROLLED AGENT or self-accredited tax preparer

    just some one a little self sufficient.

    #828338
    rescue37
    Participant

    good.jew,

    What in the world are you talking about? For the federal gov’t you file form 4868 and for New York state you file an IT-370 (I think) or online thorught the NYS website. There is no requirement of a notary.

    #828339
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    “Application shall be in writing, and shall be notarized by a notary at law.”

    http://intelliconnect.cch.com/scion/secure/index.jsp#page%5B7%5D

    #828340
    yenta.morph
    Member
    #828341
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    My link was to CCH (now called intelliconnect) which is the resource used by all tax professionals to research laws, regulations, and cases.

    Google is not always up to date. Congress changes these statutes about as often as you change your socks.

    #828342
    Know.it.all
    Member
    #828343
    yenta.morph
    Member

    Granted “Google is not always up to date” but how do you reconcile your citation with the two Gov links I gave. Intelliconnect knows the law the than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show. May I say “typical PBA” always right?

    #828344
    good.jew
    Member

    Sounds like PBA is a tax professional and he agrees with me

    #828345
    me too
    Member

    good.jew

    Maybe I too sound like a tax professional because I know my way around IRS & NYSTAX sites?

    40 years ago I and 10 other barely literate ??????? ????????? used CCH on a daily basis. So what!!!

    how do you reconcile PBA’s citation with the two Gov links I

    gave. Intelliconnect knows the law better than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show.

    #828346
    good.jew
    Member

    I always go with PBA, except when he is wrong

    #828347
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yontel

    Member

    good.jew formal extension request in writing that is notarized, ????????

    You a CPA got this info from where?

    Here is the link for the Federal form

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf

    Here is the link for FAQ for NYS http://tax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/539 I think they no longer allow

    paper applications.

    I am not a a CPA, ENROLLED AGENT or self-accredited tax preparer

    just some one a little self sufficient.

    wellmeaning busybody

    Who doesn’t like a Yenta?

    good.jew

    Maybe I too sound like a tax professional because I know my way around IRS & NYSTAX sites?

    40 years ago I and 10 other barely literate ??????? ????????? used CCH on a daily basis. So what!!!

    how do you reconcile PBA’s citation with the two Gov links I

    gave. Intelliconnect knows the law better than the IRS & NYS Dept of Taxation & Finance. Could be but it is they who run the show.

    Why are you posting under 2 usernames?

    #828348
    me too
    Member

    You sound like a good auditor. Sharp eye for detail.

    #828349
    me too
    Member

    ?????? ??? ???

    ??? ??? ????? ?????

    ????? ????? ??’ ?????

    to keep the Yenta out of the ???? ????

    ??? ???? ___ ??? ????

    & forgot to switch

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