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Do you celebrate American Holidays of non-religious significance?
I mean the following
Presidents Days
Memorial Day
4th of July
Labor Day
my kids school is open these holidays , I really see no reason for a school to be open Memorial day yet be closed 3 days for Purim (Taanit Esther, Purim and Shusham Purim) and closed for a week BEFORE Pesach
I celebrate American holidays, but that is no excuse for their to be less Yeshiva. As far as secular studies, the Yeshivos need to make up the minimum days legally necessary after missing days for Yom Tov & Chol HaMoed. Purim is more important to celebrate than any of the days you mentioned, hence the day off for Purim.
Yes.
“President’s Day” is actually the official celebration of George Washington’s birthday. President Washington was an unbelievable friend to the Jewish people. You should read his amazing letter to the Jewish congregation of Newport RI and remember that no Christian head of state had said anything like that ever before in history.
“Memorial Day” is the day that we honor those who gave their lives to preserve this medinah shel chesed in which we live.
“Independence Day” — July 4 — is the day we celebrate the creation of that medinah shel chesed. It is a day for thanksgiving. It was celebrated by Jews in America at least as early as 1788 and we have no power to alter a long established minhag such as that.
“Labor Day” is less important to us, but we should give thanks on that day for the organized labor movement because it was only due to their efforts that the US got a five day work week, allowing us to observe Shabat while keeping our jobs. Note that in most countries there is a similar-sounding holiday on May 1, but it was co-opted by socialists whose agenda is not consistent with ours; the US deliberately chose a different date in order to distance it from those interests.
“Thanksgiving Day” was not mentioned, but it was enthusiastically embraced by the small American Jewish community at the first official Thanksgiving Day in 1789 (proclaimed by George Washington, above). The very first religious writing related to Thanksgiving Day in America to be published was actually written by a Jew, Gershom Mendes Seixas. To this day, the congregation he led, which is still orthodox, skips tachanun and recites a half-hallel on Thanksgiving Day. (Whether one can eat turkey on Thanksgiving Day or any other day is a very different question!)
So while there is no heter to skip Torah learning, a few moments of appreciation for what we have here are certainly appropriate.
These holidays have become so commercialized in the US (for better or for worse) that having classes is the right thing to do. It keeps kids safe begu”r, away from dangerous activities and away from pritzus.
Considering that the US is all about free market prosperity, a special sale and shopping day is the right way to celebrate the 4th of July. It isn’t the right way to celebrate Memorial Day, but that is what happened to it and to Veterans Day, so it is best we don’t celebrate and just keep shteiging or working as we would on a weekday.
I treated Labor Day in the US as I treat Communist Labor Day May 1 here – a day to davka desecrate by shopping and working (same as I did on krachtzmas – I hit 13th Ave on both Labor Day and the 25th when I lived in NY.) If I had access to a red flag, and if it meant anything anymore which it doesn’t, I would do a Neturei Karta job on one in public here on May 1.
On the other hand, 9 May, Armistice Day, is a real holiday in this part of the world and I observe it accordingly in memory of those who died to stop the Nazis YMS – who of course were just one step worse than the Communists YMS of May 1 fame.
“Rav Fuerst in Far Rockaway forbid BBQ’s on 4th of July because it was dereach ha-goyim”
Pants are derech hagoyim too. Our forefathers wore nomadic arab garb. I will now dispense with all my pants and start wearing Jalabiya and turbans.
Streimels and bekesha are derech hagoyim too. Albeit derech hagoyim of a thousand years ago.
I celebrate the American holidays. Especially memorial day. I live here as a free man because of those that died. I can keep shabbos because of them. I can eat kosher food because of them. I am alive because of them. And the entire western world doesn’t speak German because of them. Its a pure hakoras hatov issue.
I think that had the Germans won in WWI, the world would have been a better place. There would have been no Shoah, no communist Russia and Eastern bloc, a more orderly world, a better educational system, world culture on a level a little higher than Beyonce and Oprah. It is sad that the Allies gave Germany such a raw deal after WWI that the Nazis ended up crawling out from under rocks to take over.
We just may have been better off had we been speaking German after WWI. Six million plus their descendants better off.
Maybe, but that sounds as revolting as saying that if we’d all died in an earthquake they couldn’t have killed us either -95
You have no idea how troubled the Jewish world would have been had it not been for America. So yes, I think you should observe or keep in mind ALL of the American Holidays. And have thanksgiving dinner for sure. If you have to go to school or work say on Memorial Day, that is not a major transgression as you can still observe and certainly many of the Jewish schools may or may not take off on certain holidays. But that said, be proud to be an American and be mindful of the observances in America.
How much more troubled can the Jewish world be than the loss of three generations of Yidden to assimilation and having to rebuild after the Shoah in an America that wanted assimilation or an EY that forced secularization?
The Germany of WW1 was a civilized power. The reasons for the war were extremely complex. America at that time was a backwater and a social experiment that could have gone either way. Of course, it is all moot because Hashem determines what happens, but had I been a Jew in Europe I would have davened for a German victory.
but had I been a Jew in Europe I would have davened for a German victory.
This is the advantage of hindsight, that we now know what the Germans are.
The Germans are no worse than anyone else by nature. Germany was vanquished and a meshuggener came on board and found a scapegoat. The US had an economic crisis in 2008 and someone whose values are inimical to what the founding fathers stood for, and who has ties to all kinds of radicals, was elected on his vapid message of change.
Change – yes – $1 US = 98 cents Canadian, as in three Canadian quarters, two Canadian dimes, one Canadian nickel, and three Canadian pennies for one US dollar – as I read this morning.
Everyone can fall for the quackery of a misleader in hard times – and the results are never good.
“President’s Day” is actually the official celebration of George Washington’s birthday.”
There used to be 2 days off in Feb: Lincoln’s b’day (Feb. 12) & GW’s b’day (Feb. 22). (Remember those days?!)
I’d thought they combined it to 1 day (Presidents’ Day) commemorating both of them to offset the additional national holidays added to the calendar.
‘”Labor Day” is less important to us’
Having a whole weekend off is very important to some of us 🙂
I celebrate those days like most Americans – through food.
I celebrate Labor day, the holidays for unions, by acting like a union member. I just loaf around.
600kilobear returns, the Shoa was a gezeira because everybody was going off the derech there. A German victory in WWI would not have averted it — doing teshuva would.
“had I been a Jew in Europe I would have davened for a German victory.”
I would have, too. Germany and Austria-Hungary mostly treated Jews well at that time — and they were in a war to the end against Russia, the most anti-Semitic country in the world. After the fall of the Czar, Germany and the UK should have made peace before the US intervened, but they did not.
Rav Fuerst in Far Rockaway
There’s a Rav Forst in Far Rockaway, and a Rav Fuerst in Chicago, but I don’t think there’s a Rav Fuerst in Far Rockaway.
I don’t believe Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs should have off on any of these holidays, including Thanksgiving. Since most of the schools have all frum teachers, there is no need for them to be given off. We should go solely by the Jewish calendar, as we are Jews. The few schools that do not have all frum teachers can get subs. We don’t give off on December 25 or Jan. 1, even if the teachers are goyim. If the teachers need to take off, we get subs for their classes. I think a frum school should only follow the Jewish calendar.
MDG, I like that line about the labor unions. Pretty true!
🙂 MDG, you got it!
Let’s see who can find the error in one of my posts above! Whoever does gets a kilo of dried 600 kilo bear scat, the best kasher le-mehadrin organic fertilizer known to man and approved by the Velt-Barimter Vaad haKanoim for use in growing kasher lemehadrin tomatoes, peppers and even house plants!
ahavas yisroel,
Then a frum school/kolel should only accept food stamps and Medicaid from Jews.
mdd
“the Shoa was a gezeira because everybody was going off the derech there. ” and you know this to be fact becasue…..
“600kilobear returns, the Shoa was a gezeira because everybody was going off the derech there. A German victory in WWI would not have averted it — doing teshuva would.”
who in the world are you to make such an accuzation and cheshbon? do you have a direct line to Hashem that HE told you this?
as it so happens, i very much believe in at minimum recognizing the american holidays. (new years and christmas are not american holidays by the way.) my grandfathers were both in the army during world war two- should i just forget that fact? americans liberated many people- should i just forget about that too? as someone else said, george washington was a great friend to the jews….but lets forget about him too. july 4th celebrates the freedom that we have to even have such a conversation…but lets just ignore that too.
i am probably going to be yelled at for saying this, but rabbi forst (if thats who you were talking about) is NOT my rav, so i dont have to hold by what he says. when we went into the city yesterday, we thanked everyone we saw in uniform. why is that a bad thing? where i come from, hakaras hatov is a commendable trait.
I’ve had a small flag in our yard since they got bin Laden, and it’s still there. I hate shopping and crowds, so I stay out of stores on these days. I am not against having turkey on Thanksgiving because it has no religious significance (but I’d rather go to a restaurant and order pasta). When I see a service member in uniform, if I have the opportunity I thank them for their service to our country.
“someone whose values are inimical to what the founding fathers stood for”
You should re-read the writings of the Founding Fathers, in particular Alexander Hamilton, whose model for interventionist government was accepted and implemented.
“Change – yes – $1 US = 98 cents Canadian, as in three Canadian quarters, two Canadian dimes, one Canadian nickel, and three Canadian pennies for one US dollar – as I read this morning.”
Nothing wrong with that — back in 1974 the US dollar was worth 96 cents Canadian. It is a sign of the success of Canada’s interventionist economic regulation that keeps its financial institutions on a short leash. It also may be a sign of the competitive advantage that Canadian businesses have when they don’t have to pay their employees’ health insurance. I wish we had Canada’s economic and health insurance system here in the US.
“I like that line about the labor unions. Pretty true!”
If it weren’t for labor unions, we would all be given the choice of working on Saturday or not working at all.
Except for the December holiday, our Rav and shul celebrate Sunday and national American Holidays by starting Shachris a half hour later than usual and by the addition of shiurim and refreshments on those days.
The above post is spot on. well said
mdd: Who died and made you God?
600kilobear: I’d look, but I don’t use anything from the vaad hakanoim on principle, from shechita to psak I don’t touch it 😉
As usual charlie likes to gemara-kup our countrys floundering situation into some sort of positive. Charlie, a little de Tocqueville would set you straight. And its a free download on Amazon. And no, the 1974 exchange rate had something very wrong. Do you remember 1974? Here in the US?
Now, while you may find single instances where government intervention may work in a limited fashion, the overwhelming evidence is that government social/economic engineering has always led to disaster. Why should we repeat the mistakes of our forebearers? Years ago the was an enormously detailed experiment done regarding this issue, it was decades long. I cant seem to remember the name of the study…. oh yes it was the USSR. The study had to be stopped due to catastrophic failure, death, and destruction. You can nit pick and choose all you like from history. The overall results wil be the same. And every few years some clown comes along and says no!! I know how to do it!! THEY didnt know how, but I do. And its always a failure. A whole line of failures in fact. Castro, Che, Chavez (why do they always have “C” names?)
As for unions, post 1950’s (possibly even earlier)they became useless bloated quasi criminal organizations, that much like our government, sucks its members dry little by little and produces no results. The protections we now enjoy regarding employment all the overtime stuff and holidays are all built into labor law. Some federal and some state. Yes, originally instigated by union activity but what have they done in the past 60 years other than wax politic and donate money to the Democratic party? Nothing, zip, nada. Your on the wrong side of history Charlie. Alexis de Tocqueville. Read him.
Kilo, your nausea inducing comments leave me speechless. I don’t know where you are from, but thats quite a Euro-elitist opinion. Other than that, I am just speechless. I don’t even know how to begin to formulate a response to that. I think the mods note covered it a bit. You remind me of Lord Darlington. A character from The Remains Of The Day by Ishiguro.
I don’t know how people have sunk so far. Dont people realize that until the formation of the US, the history of the the world was terror, violence, and despotism? That people would govern themselves was a crazy novel idea!! We were looked upon (as Kilo says) an experiment. Backwater? Look at what has become of Europe and then tell us that we are backwater. It is only recently that our dear leader (for those who even remember the reference) has led us to the poorhouse and has us emulating Europe. Before that we were the captains of the world. A powerhouse of justice. A force to be called upon when the downtrodden raised their voices. Imperfect yes, but far superior to any alternative. We have lost even the memory of american exceptionalism. How sad.
A number of Gedolim said it: Rav Shach, Rab Berenbaum, Reb Elchonon Wasserman, Rav Avigdor Miller. Reb Aharon clearly implied it in one of his shmussen. Chofets Chaim warned about it coming.
Also, it would not hurt you to learn parshios Bechukosai and Ki Savo and know what was going on in Europe.
Rav Shach, Rab Berenbaum, Reb Elchonon Wasserman, Rav Avigdor Miller.
mdd: These Gedolim are part of that vast right-wing conspiracy of “farfrumed hashkofos” (as you call it) that you keep disparaging.
Otherwise, I do agree with your above point about the holocaust.
Am I aloud to serve turkey at my sons bar mitzvah next Thursday?
Why not? Despite the reprated misconceptions, it is not a religious holiday
Serve it quietly
So then I can assume that I am aloud to be happy that I don’t have work next Thursday? Which works out nicely, being that it is the day of my sons bar mitzvah.
Why not? Despite the reprated misconceptions, it is not a religious holiday
Rav Hutner held it was, and it seems that Rav Moshe was against it (even if not actually assering) as a secular holiday.
Oh, don’t confuse us with facts, just pass the turkey.
DY, Thanksgiving was never a religious holiday, despite the Pilgrim myth.vRabbi Hutner had to have been given wrong information.
The first Thanksgiving Day was declared by the first US Congress in 1789, but it was a onetime celebration.
The second was declared in 1863 during the Civil War by Abraham Lincoln. It was not formalized by legislation until the early 20th century.
There is an interesting, Jewish aspnet ct to the 1789 Thanksgiving. Southern congressman opposed the resolution on the grounds that declarations of thanksgiving was a common practice of European monarchs. A Connecticut congressman argued that , on the contrary, they were following the example of King Solomon and the dedication of the Temple. The Southerners replied that they could accept Solomon as the role model and voted in favor of national day of Thanksgiving ( to thank Hashem for the Constitution )
ABSOLUTELY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am an American who is Jewish. I am proud of both. This country took in my maternal line in 1868 and my Paternal line in 1873.
My Zaidy was a corporal in the US Army during WWI. My father and uncles served in the US Army in WWII. My Father-in Law in Korea and my Brother in Viet Nam.
The past 150 years in America has been a far better life for this Jewish family than the hundreds of years in Germany and the Russian Empire.
It is not just celebration of American Holidays, it is HONORING AMERICA by observing those holidays.
I also observe Veteran’s Day to honor those who served and survived.
Feivel, the Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue, then located down the street from Federal Hall ( where Congress met ) also adopted Thanksgiving in 1789 as it’s annual day of Thanksgiving
Well then everyone, Happy Thanksgiving Eve!
I celebrate thanksgiving every day, cause I am fortunate to see the amazing beauty in everything Hashem does & created & I don’t know how to ever stop thanking Hashem for everything I have etc…
“Rav Hutner held it was”
But it is also a Jewish holiday: 100% of the congregations in New York (one out of one) dispensed with Tachanun and added additional psalms to the service way back in 1789. The Mesorah was established over a century before Rav Hutner z’tz’l was born.
Haloween and New Year’s Day (January 1) are, however, Christian holidays and Jews should avoid them. (Most Christians don’t know that they are both Christian holidays, but they are.)
“Haloween and New Year’s Day (January 1) are, however, Christian holidays and Jews should avoid them.”
Charlie: How can I avoid the day? Wake up when its over?
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