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Do you hold as true, that the existence of One G-d who created the world and runs it, is proven by logic and irrefutable?
Do you think that is a necessary belief?
My answer to both questions is yes.
popa_bar_abba
Yes and yes.
I don’t *believe* in either of these propositions. Rather I conduct myself with the *knowledge* that they are true. The distinction is subtle, I think, but important.
I don’t think these are necessary beliefs. What is necessary is proper actions, not proper thoughts. (Though thoughts are good too, I wouldn’t impose a belief requirement on others, merely a conduct requirement).
RSRH – one of the 13 core beliefs of our religion is that G-d created and runs the world. (Ani Maamin… She’Hu Borei U’Manhig…)
If you dont fully believe but conduct yourself in a certain way based on “knowledge” you are just going through pointless motions.
Sacrilege: Please don’t mis-characterize. The RAMBAM (among others), not the entire Jewish religion, holds that the thirteen ikkarim are core essential beliefs. (Though even according to him, these may not be * beliefs* per se, as much as actual knowledge and conviction).
The Maharal, based on some of the Geonim, and R. S.R. Hirsch both rejected the idea that any beliefs are required to be a Torah-true Jew. For them, correct actions were paramount. Indeed, there are numerous gemaros that indicate the correctness of that view. (e.g. Berachos, Third perek, I think, where the chachamim abolished saying the aseres hadibros, and see Rashi ad. loc.).
I have faith in “the existence of One G-d who created the world and runs it”. I believe that this is “provable” to a point; the little bit beyond that point requires a leap of faith.
And I believe that this is how it was meant to be. Because if G-d’s existence and His running of the world could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would be no nisayon of bitachon. It says “HaKol B’Yidei Shamayim CHUTZ m’yirat shamayim” – if the belief in G-d were so obvious, it wouldn’t require any effort on anyone’s part.
vus is de shailoh??
RSRH
I think all agree that certain beliefs are required like Anochi Hashem and Lo Yihyeh Lcha the first 2 aseres hadibros. According to most rishonim, they are mitzvos as well not just beliefs.
Additionally, there are 6 Constant Mitzvos that one must do at all times.
1. Knowing there’s a Hashem
2. Don’t believe in other gods.
3. God is one.
4. Love God.
5. Fear God.
6. Don’t be misled by your heart and eyes.
Do you hold as true, that the existence of One G-d who created the world and runs it, is proven by logic and irrefutable?
Do you think that is a necessary belief?
i’m sorry but my answer is no to both
emunah is that even though Hashem isn’t proven by logic 100% you still believe
if something is a fact then there is no need for belief, it’s just like saying do you believe that there is a computer screen in front of you (no it’s a fact that there is a computer screen in front of you)
therefore if its proven by logic and irrefutable then it can’t be a belief
and the Rambam lists it in the Ani Maamin’s to tell you that it’s a belief and not a fact (albeit 99.99% fact)
I worked for many years with the at-risk teen population. As was my habit I would bring the kids closest to me to meet my mother a”h and my aunt both Auschwitz survivors. The kids would always ask them if they believed in G-d. On particular young lady sat with my mom on her porch and pursued the question.
“Do you believe in G-d?” my mom answered “of course”. “But how can you believe in G-d when he allowed the holocaust to happen?”. My mom said that Hashem didn’t allow the Holocaust to happen people did but “Hashem saved me and my sisters so how can I not believe in Hashem? He plucked us from the fire and saved us. Our question was why us? What purpose and plan did he have for us? What zchus were we entitled to that we were saved? We knew good and well that Hashem was in charge and that emunah and bitachon is what got us from one day to the next.”
So do I believe in G-d? B’emunah shleimah! If he didn’t save my parents I wouldn’t be here and neither would my kids and grandkids. Yes, everything I have is only because he has given in to me. He is so good to me even when he tests me and my bitachon to him. He surrounds me with love and support through the good times and the bad times I know that I am never alone.
WIY:
All agree that Anochi and Lo Yieyeh are mitzvos, thats pretty clear, isn’t it? However, not all agree that these are, as you say, *beliefs*. For many, the mitzva of Anochi Hashem is not to * believe* in God, but rather to actually make God YOUR GOD. Lo yeiyeh is taken as the negative side of the same coin – an injunction not to make anything else YOUR GOD. i.e., the mitzva is to make God the reference point of your existence and the scale against which you measure your earthly conduct, and to not make any other *god* (ideology, belief, conviction, desire) the focal point of your life against which you judge your actions. Belief is beside the point.
As for the six constant mitzvos: First, I am not sure why you chose these six as constant. Lo sasuru is constant, but so is lo yimosh divrei hatorah m’picha, and kibud av v’eim, and lo sigzol for that matter. We are constantly bound by all the laws of the Torah. Second, I’m not sure what any of these mitzvos has to do with belief; they are requirements to act or not act in particular ways, as are all the mitzvos.
Concerning G-d and the Holocaust:
It seems to me that is you are going to blame G-d for whatever bad that happened, then you are implying that G-d runs the world. At that rate, to be consistent in thought, then a person should have to praise Hashem for all the good in one’s life (from the simplest to the most complex). If one can really be that cognizant of Hashem, then the question won’t really bother you.
On the other hand, if one believes that the good that happens to mankind is a product of our own doing, then (in being consistent) one should see the Holocaust as a product of man’s doing. In this case the questioning of G-d is useless.
In short, the question comes up by people that are either inconsistent and/or ingrates.
G-d exists whether you believe in Him or not.
The question is – Does He believe in YOU?
If He doesn’t… Well… it is YOU that wont exist.
Do something today to strengthen HaSh-m’s faith in YOU.
AinOhdMilvado, I was thinking something similar/
Btw, in Modeh Ani, it mentions about Hashem having faith in us, meaning our potential.
This world is a beautiful painting, and yet people in general wonder whether the Painter exists.
A good lecturer on this topic is Rabbi Mechanic from project chazon
Hashem gave people bechirah. There are good and bad people in the world and people have the choice to do both good and bad. When it came to the holocaust it was bad people following a very bad person. They did have bechirah and they chose to follow a mad man. The choices yiddin made after the fire is something that WE learned a lot from.
My mother raised us not to judge others. She always told us that there were the frumest of the frum who went into the war and came out total non-believers. And there were the friest of the frie that came out of the war totally devoted to Hashem and became very frum.
So when we speak of the bad that happens we either understand that it is something that man has created or Hashem is testing us in some one. When good happens we do need to understand that it is a gift from Hashem, because either it came from man which was created by Hashem or Hashem answered a prayer or sent us a sheliach. Everything we have comes from Hashem but he does not control our choices.
“Do you hold as true, that the existence of One G-d who created the world and runs it, is proven by logic and irrefutable?”
The answer to this question is an absolute, “NO!”. Any G-d whose existence can be proven by human logic is no G-d, at least not a G-d who is worth worshiping. G-d is far beyond any human power to comprehend.
There is also the problem that if you set out to prove the existence of G-d you admit that it is potentially possible to disprove the existence of G-d. I can’t understand why that would not be heresy.
“Do you think that is a necessary belief?”
Yes, at least for Jews. It is one of the few questions that prospective converts to Judaism must be asked.
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